21-08-2001 23:45									#1
	The reasons why Civ players join forums like this Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hello,

I am a new forum member here at Apolyton, but I've been a Civ player for a long time now, and I've gotten news from Apolyton since 1999, so i'm no "newbie" to what's going on here.

I just read the entire thread of Yin26 "swan song" about why we play and what our definition of fun is. And rather than continue that thread I feel there is a need for a new discussion about the nature of the forum itself.

START SOAPBOX

Since 1994 when I got CivI I have played this game for the joy of the challenge. I remember when I beat emperor level for the first time on CivI - what a rush. Beating deity for the firts time in CivII was great, but not the same. I suspect that beating deity in CivIII will only further confirm the law of diminishing returns. The best part of beating the game is the satisfaction of beating it mono-a-mono. No cheats, no helps, no advice. This is the way it was in CivI.

I have now played CivII for hundreds and hundreds of hours. I don't profess to be the best player out there, but I'm pretty good. And I can tell you that there is only one reason why I am in this forum and the forum at CivFanatics - I want to beat YOU.

If you play Civ, or any game for that matter, to beat a computer you will quickly lose interest in the game. (Yes, mods and scenarios are great, but once the knowledge that victory is assured is yours, the game becomes just an exercise.) I've read a lot of threads and we have dissected this game down to the last line of code. We know it inside out with all its strengths and weaknesses. And IMO, we've ruined the game. Even a few months ago, I could play a deity level game and truly wonder if I would win before 2020. I didn't play for score. I played to win, and I only played well enough to beat the machine.

Well, after a few months on the forums that's all that there is left to play for is score. I know enough of the secrets to be able to cream the AI with one hand tied behind my back. The game is much less fun now.

However, I will buy CivIII. And I will be a regular visitor to the forums. Why? Because CivIII isn't about culture, great leaders or bigger maps - it's all about being the best. It's about conquering the world of Civ fanatics by beating them at their own game. I will be surprised if I play a dozen games against the AI when CivIII comes out. I will be playing against you. And the secrets to the game that I learn will be my own.

Let those who must share their secrets, tell all and get a pat on the back from the rest of us. However, the best players, I assume, will hold on to their aces until the right time comes to share.

The age of innocence is over for most of us. CivIII opens a whole new playing field for someone to emerge as the dominant Civ player of the world.

This is the challenge that I think most of us wanted from the start.

Why are you here?

	22-08-2001 00:36									#2
	Suffering from ads?

Another thing I find with the Civ crowd is that they are always very friendly and well behaving. This might seem as something obvious to some of you but to me it is hardly so. I have a great deal of experience from the Starcraft community and I can without a doubt say that if Apolyton is like a 20-year old then the general Starcraft community ( on b.net that is, kali I know nothing of ) is like a 5-year old. Perhaps its the style of the civ games that attract a more mature crowd, maybe its the fact that to play civ you have to have to have a comparably high attention span.

But im real happy I found this site last summer and even though im not a well known member I still feel welcome and respected when I post. This place is rare and if it ever disappears im sure many will grieve greatly.

	22-08-2001 11:25									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I come here to have scholarly debate and/or discussiion (serious!). I find that there are many here on the boards that are "cutting edge" when it comes to amateur, if not proffessional, study of history and political science/international affairs. I am now 19, but have been reading hard-core history and poly sci books since I was 9, so I virtually grew up with this stuff. There aren't many other people my age that has taken such an interest in these subjects as I have. I am actually going into first year university in September for a Combined Honours degree in Political Science and History. It should be pretty easy for me.


Vitmore

	22-08-2001 12:01									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I haven't played any civ2 or smac in over a year. I did make the mistake of purchasing ctp2 though . I never played a complete game of that.


In fact I'm thinking the TBS genre is really dead. Civ3 is going to bomb (except for the devoted types of course) in the mass market.

Why do I stay?

I must have no other place to go

	22-08-2001 13:20									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Dissident In fact I'm thinking the TBS genre is really dead. Civ3 is going to bomb (except for the devoted types of course) in the mass market.

May be not, it only needs a company, with more courage than money to loose , bring up a refreshing concept.

Civ III will not bomb IMHO, because it can live on the fame of Sid and previous Civ. May be it will not be the greatest success someone is dreaming, and if that will happen it will probably put an end to the loved Civilization franchise...

	22-08-2001 13:21									#6
	Suffering from ads?

I originally came here to talk about CtP after reading the old strategies board here at Apolyton. Then someone there mentioned the forums, and after lurking a while I eventually posted.

I stopped playing ctp for a while, and then mainly posted in the OT.

But since earlier this year, I've begun playing CtP PBEMs and in the CtP2 succession games, and that's the main reason I still come back. Well that, and the quest to reach Emperor....

	22-08-2001 13:26									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith May be not, it only needs a company, with more courage than money to loose , bring up a refreshing concept. Civ III will not bomb IMHO, because it can live on the fame of Sid and previous Civ. May be it will not be the greatest success someone is dreaming, and if that will happen it will probably put an end to the loved Civilization franchise...

It probably won't "bomb", but it won't reach anywhere near the popularity that civ1 and 2 had. Civ3's improvements over civ 2 are no where near as big as the jump from civ1 to 2. Also, the civ community has had SMAC, and ctP1 & 2 in between, so nothing that comes out will be able to really satisfy us.

	22-08-2001 13:33									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by phoenixcager Civ3's improvements over civ 2 are no where near as big as the jump from civ1 to 2

That's the biggest load I've ever heard. How was the 1-2 jump bigger than the 2-3 jump will be? I played 1&2, and they were incredibly similar.

	22-08-2001 13:46									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I don't think I will be alone in saying this when we see the final thing.

Not that civ3 will be bad....just not that big improvement that we expect it to be.

	22-08-2001 13:50									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

yeah I was exaggerrating about bombing. but me thinks they have very high hopes for this project. They can't expect it to have the same mass appeal as diablo2.

I actually think civ3 will be a good game. much better than smac, ctp 1 & 2. but I have a feeling I will get bored of it within 2 months. I don't think any game will ever get as much play as I had with civ2.

	22-08-2001 14:03									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yes, well said Dissident. Some people here have been playing civ2 for like 5 or 6 years. I doubt that as many people will be playing civ3 for that long.

2 months is a bit short, though. Although, for CtP2, I got bored pretty much the 2nd week of play. But this is different.

It will, of course, be better than the 3 games you mentioned.

	22-08-2001 19:27									#12
	Why am I here? Increase the size of your Attachments

I lost a bet.

Nawww, actually I started coming here for scenarios, and ended up making friends here, so I stuck around.

Another reason to stay is to bug Mark on numerous topics.

	22-08-2001 21:51									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I come to share knowledge of the game and to chat with others about varied geographical/historical/cultural/linguistic topics. Topics I love pop up in various forums, and exchanging insights is always fun. There are many interesting people to meet here.

Also, I happen to be one of those who share the secrets of the game! You may slide an ace in your sleeve, Satis5d, but if I learn of it, I'll post it with a full analysis!

	23-08-2001 03:48									#14
	Got spare money?

<b>*plug*</b>

Please visit the link in my signature for "Apolyton:The Book" I have an old archive of why people came here and why they chose their usernames.

<b>*/endplug*</B>

	23-08-2001 19:28									#15
	Why do I keep coming back? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

To post about my MP games of course!! I love civ2MP... Hoepfully Civ3MP will be even better, but they not releasing enough information yet...

	24-08-2001 00:30									#16
	Do you have an update? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud <b>*plug*</b> Please visit the link in my signature for "Apolyton:The Book" I have an old archive of why people came here and why they chose their usernames. <b>*/endplug*</B>

Sure, but where's your signature?

I downloaded a few months ago "Essays on Apolyton" by Dark Cloud and I found it very interesting and instructive (I think is going so far as December 2000). Did you refere at that or you have something new?

	24-08-2001 00:51									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Sorry, I had the signature disabled.
The second question remain.

Last edited by Mihai on 24-08-2001 at 01:39

	24-08-2001 04:47									#18
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse That's the biggest load I've ever heard. How was the 1-2 jump bigger than the 2-3 jump will be? I played 1&2, and they were incredibly similar.

Civ1 to Civ2 was a very conservative upgrade; and Civ3 looks a more significant upgrade from Civ2. Many new features, integral to the game of course, have been integrated...

	24-08-2001 05:23									#19
	Put an end to popups!

"Visit Apolyton- The Book (The Website for the people of Apolyton: The History of Apolyton)
http://home.att.net/~sjcfg/main.html "

That is what my sig said:


Updates... I suppose I will, I have some things I could add- I do a bit of work on it each day...

Within the last month I added about 10KB of data.

I hope to add more soon- but will notify all when I do

Thanks for visiting it Mihai... This thread may very well be refered to it on the site---- but please, if you posted here, would you give me permission to post it on the site... I 'could' post it on the site without your permission but then, I may have to take it off if you don't want it on there... and that's a hassle

	24-08-2001 05:38									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

this year is a strong year for tbs


AND
im here to feel inadequate and dumb and to get my ass kick (no joke)

	25-08-2001 03:20									#21
	Support Apolyton

nothing better to do

	25-08-2001 18:44									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

La la