25-01-2001 16:01									#1
	A new challenge in deity/raging? Get a bigger avatar today!

I have now played successfully deity/raging with ICS, OCC and perfectionist strategy. I want more challenge and I'm asking if anyone has tried this yet: give all techs you discover to all civs immediately!

At start the AI is quite good at researching new techs and gets them quite rapidly. But at some point I've seen that AI almost completely stalls at discovering new techs. Maybe because I really like to trade techs with them and offer them as gifts as well. So aggressive Mongols get all civilized techs and civilized Babylonians get the military ones which those civs can't use for their own benefit. The result: the AI's preferable research path gets totally jammed because of the increased need for sciense beakers.

So, what do you think? Would this give us more competent AI?

	25-01-2001 20:02									#2
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If you want a new challenge try this:
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/001418.html?46

This is a scenario devised by DaveV for MPGE - from memory - you play on a Medium Map. You could also try the current Headstart Succession Game - but you need the Giga Patch for this one. Let me know if you want the latter - and I will forward.

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SG(2)

	26-01-2001 19:04									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Gits, I'd love to try giga map! If you have got the patch please send it to my email! Thanks in advance!

Btw, I only have 2.42 version of the game.

	27-01-2001 02:58									#4
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You need MPGE for the Giga Patch. (The patch can be downloaded from Apolyton.)

Looks like you will have to go shopping for Multiplayer!

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SG(2)

	27-01-2001 05:06									#5
	Got spare money?

That's very very strange - I posted a reply here a few days ago and now it's gone. I thought it was impossible for other people to delete my messages???

It described what I call my peacekeeper challenge, which goes as follows, and is very hard to win:

1) Large world, large land mass, continents, warm, wet, 5 billion years, raging hordes, deity, 7 civs.
2) I do not build Wonders.
3) I give the AI all technologies for free - no trading.
4) I don't attack the AI unless they are actively attacking my cities or units (though I do expel diplomats).
5) I do not bribe AI units or cities, nor do I steal technologies.
6) I have to find the AI - I can't sit back on my island and play alone.

	27-01-2001 13:11									#6
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Actually, Marko Polo posted this same topic also in the Civ2-General forum and that's where you replied to it. That reply is still there.

	27-01-2001 14:12									#7
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Yup, that's right, I've posted this topic to these both forums :. I'm sorry for the confusion. I first wrote this to 'general'-forum but then I realized that this topic should have been written here. I tried to delete my own topic from the 'general' when it was still without replies but I wasn't authorized to do that. Sorry again.

Btw ChrisShaffer, I replied to your post at general forum

	27-01-2001 15:51									#8
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I was thinking of a possible one- OCC bloodlust challenge. I'm not sure how difficult it will be, since a good OCC game puts the player way ahead of other civs in tech & production. But the basic goal is to conquer the world using one city. You'll want to note when you switch from standard passive OCC to conquest OCC, and how long it took to conquer the planet (if able). The least time to conquer from switch is the overall goal, with earlier switch/world conquest times as secondary goals. Some standardization as to what should be done with conquered cities needs to be addressed as well. I suggest:

1) Conquered cities are treated as part of the empire, and may fully contribute to the war effort.

2) Conquered cities may only act to protect themselves and to add money/tech to the empire. New units built or ones homed there may not leave the city radius.

3) Conquered cities must be burned to the ground ASAP. No new construction is allowed other than 1 settler. Buildings may be sold & all citizens MUST be specialists of any type.

New cities may NEVER be founded.

	27-01-2001 20:27									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Theben, I actually tried something like 'bloodlust OCC' for fun after my first and only true OCC game. I landed to AC year 1894 and then wanted to try conquering just for fun. I was amazed how easy it was.. my capitol produced a howie one turn and the AI had all his cities railroaded.. I rushbought barracks and more howies in the conquered cities and after 15 turns I had destroyed 3 AI civs and all the main cities of the rest civs. Then I got bored and went to bed.. has anyone else tried OCC bloodlust?
[This message has been edited by Marko_Polo (edited January 27, 2001).]

	28-01-2001 00:20									#10
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OK, I replied in the other thread

	28-01-2001 11:59									#11
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Well, there's one challenge you might try that many people have contributed to here: Nomads Challenge.

The hardest version is this: you can never use a settler to build a city. Your only ways of acquiring cities are two:
1) good huts giving an advanced tribe
2) conquering a city with goody hut units (or, later, units you have built)

To make things tough, play on diety, raging, seven civs...if you want to be REALLY sadistic, try doing it as an OCC

-KhanMan
PS. Last I heard, Ming and RAH had some good results with this challenge...but they're the kind of guys who invented the "spaceship landing on 1 AD" challenge

	28-01-2001 13:13									#12
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Marko Polo,

Try my "free the world challenge" (make the barbarians own all cities but one).
As far as I know nobody has been able to do it ! http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/001495.html?4


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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

	28-01-2001 16:31									#13
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So far I've gotten five interesting new deity challenges, thanks to Scouse Gits, ChrisShaffer, Theben, KhanMan and Julius Brenzaida! I'm now wondering which one should I choose to my next game?

1) AI headstart (SG)

Would be nice to try this but I don't have MGE and I think I'll continue with my 2.42 until Civ3

2) Peacemaker (Chris)

Surely is one of the hardest. I think I'm more into waging war though so the total lack of war isn't so appealing to my taste.

3) OCC bloodlust (Theben)

This idea sounds like fun! I would try it so that after building my space ship 100% ready to launch I would start the conquest campaign. I would allow the new conquered cities to build more offensive units and thus participate fully to my military campaign. Spys may fully bribe cities as well. I'd like to have a blitz (spelling?) war like German did in WW2. Then I would time the AC landing to the same year I would conquest the last AI city. Yeah, I must definetly try it! This challenge also minimizes the (sometimes) tedious micromanagent which is mandatory in all other challenges and thus reduces the playing time

4) Nomad (KhanMan)

This also is worth trying! It's quite interesting. I think it's best to have largest map with large land masses as continents with 3 billion years wet and warm (hmm.. does these settings give me most grass/plains to increase advanced tribes probability? Anyone know?) Another challenge I want to give a try!

5) Free the world (Julius)

This sounds impossible! Julius, I assume you have tried this? To what extent have you managed to "free the world"?

	29-01-2001 16:41									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

I tried 'bloodlust OCC' and played all night it (I have slept only three hours )

I had small map, 7 civs, deity/raging and my city had wine, gold, iron and buffalo-specials. There was three 'extra' mountains as well so my engineers had to work hard to terraform them to plains. My final city size was 32. At year 1890 I had my 100% space ship ready to my launch command. Then I started the funniest part of my game, THE CONQUEST!

After playing 20 turns (1910AD) I have conquered Sioux who iust before 1890 had conquered Persia. I've also took all the main big cities of the most powerful civ, Babylonians and after I took his capitol, he was swept away to civil war and now I have also Mongols in my game

I think that when I get home I launch my space ship and conquer the rest of world, trying to time the landing and conquest to the same year. IMO this is a quite fun challenge and not so difficult.

Btw, it's really incredible how effective a vet howie can be! It usually can kill two good defencing units (alpine/rifle) during the same turn. A mech inf isn't a problem either.

Secondly, the AI is quite pathetic with his cruise missiles; he loves to build them but I haven't seen him to use them to the land targets at all. To my experience he uses them only to naval targets. But if he must build them, a good target would be my four howies beside his city when they have been used to blow up the city defences

	30-01-2001 13:52									#15
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I think the hardest challenge would be :

1. Playing on the world map with the English, Deity, RHordes,....
2. Against the French, the Spanish, the Roman, the Mongols, the Americans, and the Babylonians
3. Starting with one settler
4. Just Road, Mining, and Irrigation as free sciences.

Good Luck

	30-01-2001 18:24									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Here's a suggestion, not really a new challenge though, but a fun way to play civ:

Let a friend start a game and play until 1 AD. Then you get a copy and both of you play it from there. Two separate games. Compare every 500 year or so and see how each one is doing. If you like you could set goals like:

1. 1st one to conquer the world
2. 1st to AC

This is fun , but you could also learn something from it - looking at the other guy's moves or mistakes. And your own as well.

	31-01-2001 16:13									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

For those who wants only an 'easy' challenge, mine could be called the 'Long live the king' challenge:
On huge map, the best allowed government for the human player is monarchy.
I tried only once. I did not won, but I was close.

	31-01-2001 19:08									#21
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Have you tried the scenario named Rome that goes with the game ?
I suppose it was designed by the authors of the game and I find it GREAT (because you start with one of seven civs around the Mediterranian, each civ with its own abilities and there are neither goodie huts nor new wonders apart from the "historical" ones).
I would be very happy to know whether strong ICSers or OCCers have tried it and what they have achieved (personally I am fighting hard to manage winning in less than 100 years; have come close to it but not yet beaten it).

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aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

	05-02-2001 18:41									#22
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I did it!
89 turns.
I start a new topic ("delenda est...") to discuss that.

	05-02-2001 20:01									#25
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An easier challenge might be the “Wait for Jesus” one. You don’t do nothing, don’t move your settlers at all until one AD. So you give the Ai a little headstart. I’ve read about it but don’t remember where. It should be playable, especially on a large or gigamap.

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe