22-08-2001 02:17									#1
	Has ToT stood the test of time? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

lol

No.

And too bad too. I did enjoy it though, as it was the version of Civ II that I played. Introduced me to CIV, and lead me to choosing SMAX!

	22-08-2001 15:16									#2
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You're right !
I think MGE has won !
I don't feel bad about it though
(I have both versions)

	23-08-2001 20:20									#3
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I have both versions, too, and I always find it humorous when people speak so negatively against ToT (not this thread, but others). Let's face it: the Original game in ToT is the same game as MGE! It's fine if people don't like the graphics, but that's a personal preference issue. However, that in and of itself doesn't make it a bad game. As I've played them both, the only real differences in ToT are the graphics, lack of wonder movies, lack of advisors, and lack of throne room, none of which detract from my enjoyment of the game. In fact, I'm one of the few who actually likes the ToT graphics.

The only substantive reason I can think of that gives MGE an edge is the availability of scenarios and modpacks, but even those can be converted for ToT. In short, it's just another option in the Civ2 universe, so why bash it?

	24-08-2001 21:55									#4
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Rwprice, you're right !
ToT is MGE with different (worse or better according to some) graphics
And the possibilty for other games (extended, midgard, science fiction).
All those who own it can enjoy playing Civ2 with it
And if you have original civ2 or MGE cd-rom, just put it in the drive while playing ToT and you'll get the wonder movies !
All this said, I have to admit I am married to MGE, but with no disrespect to ToT

	24-08-2001 22:55									#5
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The tragedy of TOT may be that civ3 follows it too soon.

As is starting to become apparent in the scenario community, TOT has great scenario building potential. However that has only become apparent recently, and there are only a few TOT scenarios out there. Had there been more time we could see TOT become very important in the scen comm, but i think civ3 will cut that off.

LOTM

	29-08-2001 05:58									#6
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I wouldn't write off Tot or its scenarios just yet. It took a long while for civ2 scenarios to really take off and there are still a lot of pretty good ones both released very recently and still in the making.
It'll take time for Civ3 players/strategies/scenarios to really make the most of Civ3 too...

	29-08-2001 11:35									#7
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I'll be making the most of CivIII the first day it comes out- by installing it and having a 36 hour playfest!!

<-- Paul Shafer

	04-09-2001 17:18									#8
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I really do like the ToT graphics, I don´t know about MGE but the extra games are a very good bonus over to FW and before.
One reason why it could and should survive Civ3 is multiple worlds. That opens up many possibilities, few of which have bee explored yet I think, and since Civ3 doesn´t have them... Also, CSPL is something that could become a major help in creating ToT scenarios. If only more people would buy ToT.

	19-10-2001 01:37									#9
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how many other versions of civ have unit mania?

	19-10-2001 16:07									#10
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Well, it is true that with the 4 worlds and the scenario tools, there are many interesting optinos.
What’s more, I’m working on the second version of my no-limits add-on and it might help a little bit. See the “new version of no limits add-on" thread in the civ2/creation forum.

	19-10-2001 17:08									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

We cannot forget that there are some great diferences from MGE to TOT:

1. In ToT you can sell, for example, one improvement (per turn) in all your cities just by choosing to sell one (this option then pops up). This is pretty usefull when you have built/captured the Hoover Dam and want to sell all Hydro/Nuclear/Power Plants in all your cities!!

2. The AI is pretty better in ToT version!!

3. The Units graphics really move and attack when that's the action made, and the units stay in the same direction they were last time they attacked/moved! (aldo the units graphics themselfs aren't very impressive )

Aldo all of this i don't like much of the graphics too! I think maybe they are too dark!

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Portugal - Nation of Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition)

	19-10-2001 17:17									#12
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JayKay : how can you tell the AI from TOT is better than from MGE
It would be interesting to know

	19-10-2001 17:59									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Julius Brenzaida JayKay : how can you tell the AI from TOT is better than from MGE It would be interesting to know

I don't have any technical issue that can support that!

However from my experience as civ player (I have the Civ 1; CivNet; Civ 2 MGE; Civ 2 ToT; CTP; SMAC); the AI civs in ToT tend to attack you more often and with more units when they suspect that your peace treaty with them is not for real; also the Barbarian Tribes seams more powerful than in MGE!

But...as i said this post is just a suspicion; i'm not sure of any of these!

But if you would like to enlight me...be my guest!

As the other two points on the previous post (1. and 3.); i'm absolutley sure of them!

_________________________________________________



Portugal - Nation of Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition)

	22-10-2001 17:32									#14
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Hi all,


I just recently purchased ToT and I must say that I agree with JayKay that the AI is more aggressive. I've been playing Civ II since 1996 and I've never seen the AI assemble such a well coordinated assault force as I have in ToT. In a recent Extended Game I was playing I had populated 3 islands as France. The second island I was on was successfully attacked by the English (AI). They used an amphibious landing supported by ships and stealth bombers. I was stunned.

At first I thought that the graphics were tough on the eyes but after getting used to them I realized that I really like the graphics in ToT. Now if I can only find somewhere to play online. I was on MSN's game zone last night but they don't have that game supported. Only the MGE version.

Anybody know of any sites that one can go to to play?

	22-10-2001 18:26									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich Hi all, Now if I can only find somewhere to play online. I was on MSN's game zone last night but they don't have that game supported. Only the MGE version. Anybody know of any sites that one can go to to play?

I don't know of any site to play ToT, even because i usually plan my games (ToT or MGE) via ICQ or e-mail, and we play it over the internet at TCP/IP!!

If you are interested in playing, msg me! I know of some guys who would like to play ToT (including myself)!!

Perhaps there's an ICQ Active List for ToT (there's two for MGE) - i'll see this!!

Hope i helped you in some way (i wish i could help you more)!

_________________________________________________



Portugal
Nation of: Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition);
Vasco da Gama (Discoverer of the Maritime path to India);
and Pedro Álvares Cabral (Discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

	22-10-2001 19:41									#16
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JayKay, yes you were right for the selling of improvements
And the graphics are indeed a matter of taste and maybe of habit
For the AI, I'm not sure it's very different from MGE. It seems to me there was a discussion some monthes ago, in the strategy forum, but I am not that sure

	23-10-2001 05:10									#17
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A fair number of people have reported the AI as being better than that in MGE (which I don't have). It certainly seems better than the FW AI which stands to reason with the added multiple map features and the AI's ability to cross between them.
I've also noticed that some of the features really seem to work. Everybody knows about the sub flag that never made a unit stealthy to any AI, but the new "invisible until attacks" (I think I have that right) really seems to work. I never once had any of my units attacked prematurely while moving into positions. They really did seem invisible.
The ability to assign any sound to any unit is also a plus for scen makers, as well as the engineer flag to unit slots other than 2. If only they had been able to lift some of the other restrictions on units/flags to allow for example, air freight or sea diplomats, etc ....

	24-10-2001 18:29									#18
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Personally I think MGE/UCC won. The main reason I think this is because they tried to make it harder to put MODs in TOT and tools out the tools. Why? well I never did find out, it had to do with Hasbro not supporting modifications to it's games. I'm just glad it's included in Civ 3.

	25-10-2001 05:11									#19
	Problem with loading saved files on magezine tot Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I got TOT of a magezine (who would buy it?)

When I decide I should save the game and , next day I re-load the game and go to bed (2am) the graphics are disgusting. It looks like original CIVII graphics but lots of "crap"/messy display of those graphics .

I have tried patch 1.1 but still the same.

Any ideas??

Plus the selected unit has blue flashing boxes to "hilight"

Zonnald

	25-10-2001 13:24									#20
	Re: Problem with loading saved files on magezine tot Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Zonnald Zonnald

I don't know who told you, but that image isn't from Civ 2 ToT!!

Civ 2 ToT graphics doesn't have anything to do with Civ 2 MGE graphics!! (they're tottally different, even the units)

That's a Civ 2 MGE Scenario at most, probably with the units.gif or the cities.gif damaged!!

_________________________________________________



Portugal
Nation of: Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition);
Vasco da Gama (Discoverer of the Maritime path to India);
and Pedro Álvares Cabral (Discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

	25-10-2001 16:37									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

I never had a problem with ToT's graphics being too dark- but I like them dark anyhow.

I did, however, not like CivII's graphics: WAY too bright and cartoonish for me.

Heck, I even liked Civ1's graphics better than CivII's.

	25-10-2001 18:14									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba Heck, I even liked Civ1's graphics better than CivII's.

You got to be kidding!!

I mean, the Castle thing was very good (can't say the same thing about the Throne Room), but the rest.....i'm not saying i dislike it too much (i've played civ 1 a lot - even this year), but the graphics in Civ 2 are better!!

But, hey...it's my opinion against yours!!

And opinions are not argueable, right?
(it's an old saying in my country)
_________________________________________________



Portugal
Nation of: Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition);
Vasco da Gama (Discoverer of the Maritime path to India);
and Pedro Álvares Cabral (Discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

	25-10-2001 18:19									#23
	Re: Re: Problem with loading saved files on magezine tot Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by JayKay I don't know who told you, but that image isn't from Civ 2 ToT!! Civ 2 ToT graphics doesn't have anything to do with Civ 2 MGE graphics!! (they're tottally different, even the units) That's a Civ 2 MGE Scenario at most, probably with the units.gif or the cities.gif damaged!! _________________________________________________ Portugal Nation of: Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition); Vasco da Gama (Discoverer of the Maritime path to India); and Pedro Álvares Cabral (Discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

I am telling you that this jpg was taken after reloading the Tot saved game in Tot, by me, on my machine.

I have sinced reinstalled and made sure that I saved the game in other than the top TOT directory and it seems to work ok - I have also noted that in this top directory are units.gif and cities.gif from the mge version, and the files are definitely not damaged.

Also note: I did get this version of Tot of a magazine cover.

cheers

	25-10-2001 20:42									#24
	Re: Re: Re: Problem with loading saved files on magezine tot Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Zonnald I am telling you that this jpg was taken after reloading the Tot saved game in Tot, by me, on my machine. I have sinced reinstalled and made sure that I saved the game in other than the top TOT directory and it seems to work ok - I have also noted that in this top directory are units.gif and cities.gif from the mge version, and the files are definitely not damaged. Also note: I did get this version of Tot of a magazine cover. cheers

I'm sorry...i wasn't very explicit!!

What i meant to said is that the image you presented was not from Civ 2 TOT original, but it could be a scenario or an edited gif file!!

So, the graphics showed on the image are not the TOT graphics! (not the original ones)! Trust me...i have TOT, it's nothing like that image!!
_________________________________________________



Portugal
Nation of: Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition);
Vasco da Gama (Discoverer of the Maritime path to India);
and Pedro Álvares Cabral (Discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

	27-10-2001 23:51									#25
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Jay, I don't think you understand what he is trying to say. Those screenshots that he is posting are the savegames AFTER he reloads the savegame from TOT. He was playing TOT, but the game was using the old Civ2 graphics. He was saving the game in the wrong directory and therefore, Civ2 used the wrong gif/bmp files for the graphics. Thats why his game didn't look like TOT at all, even though it was TOT.

	04-11-2001 18:58									#26
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Zonnald, I'm assuming you got this off the November Australian PC User?

So far I've had no problems with it like you've described. My gf and I have been playing a Hotseat game for a fair chunk of the day actually, and we've seen nothing like what you're getting. Hopefully it all comes good for you...

	05-11-2001 21:18									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by BigBear Jay, I don't think you understand what he is trying to say. Those screenshots that he is posting are the savegames AFTER he reloads the savegame from TOT. He was playing TOT, but the game was using the old Civ2 graphics. He was saving the game in the wrong directory and therefore, Civ2 used the wrong gif/bmp files for the graphics. Thats why his game didn't look like TOT at all, even though it was TOT.

Yes....i was trying to say that exactly! That's why i said scenario, i meant he had saved the game in a directory of some scenario in Civ 2 Standard!

But no...i hadn't noticed that he was saying that this only happened after the reload, so....i think before he saved the game it was OK! I thought he was saying that picture was from a game he started (not reloaded), in that case i was trying to say that he saved the whole game in a directory of Civ 2 Standard!

Sorry...i wasn't very explicited, i thought you'd understand that what i was trying to say with "scenario" was in fact "wrong directory" because this had happened to me onetime in Civ 2 MGE when i saved a game in a scenario directory, and the game went beserk as it gathered the information from that scenario!
_________________________________________________



Portugal
Nation of: Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition);
Vasco da Gama (Discoverer of the Maritime path to India);
and Pedro Álvares Cabral (Discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

	07-11-2001 00:24									#28
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Civ2 Test of Time has stood the test of time because in the opening screen of a new game in Civ3 you are asked if you can build a civ that can stand the test of time!

	08-11-2001 06:34									#29
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lol good reasoning with the quote. It's too bad ToT got gipped I think the main reason was thisL It came out too close to the realease of Civ3 and people were already established with FW and MGE. That's how it falls!

	15-11-2001 07:59									#30
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Hey you might want to check out the SLeague forum. Miner has announced he will finish work on ToTEdit! This great for anyone who wants to make a scenario for ToT! Look at it.