23-08-2001 18:02									#1
	suggestion: civ characteristics changing over time Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Wouldn't it be cool if the different civs had characteristics fitting with the timeframe they are in? For instance, the Romans. In ancient times they would first be Mil/Ind, like the Roman Empire. During the middle ages Rel/Com and during the renaisance Sci/Com (Italian states). During the industrial revolution Exp/Mil (unification of Italy, fascism). And in modern times Ind/Com (present day Italy). Could a thing like this be implemented in, say, scenarios? Some suggestions of changing civ characteristics:


Romans (Roman Empire, Italian city states, Italy)

Ancient: Mil/Ind (romans)
Medieval: Rel/Com (vatican)
Renaisance: Sci/Com (galileo)
Industrial: Mil/Exp (fascists)
Modern: Ind/Com (after ww2)

Germans (German tribes, Holy Roman Empire, Pruisians, Germany)

Ancient: Mil/Exp (german tribes)
Medieval: Rel/Exp (holy roman)
Renaisance: Mil/??? (pruisians)
Industrial: Mil/Exp (nazis)
Modern: Ind/Com (after ww2)

France (Francs, France)

Ancient: Mil/Exp (francs)
Medieval: Rel/Exp (carolus the great)
Renaisance: Mil/Exp (napoleon)
Industrial: Com/Exp (colonial)
Modern: Ind/Com (after ww2)

English (Anglo-Saxons, English)

Ancient: Mil/Exp (anglo-saxons)
Medieval: Exp/Rel (100 year war)
Renaisance: Exp/Col (colonial)
Industrial: Ind/Exp (industrial revolution)
Modern: Ind/Com (after ww2)

Persians (Persians, Arabs, Iraq?)

Ancient: Mil/Com (persians)
Medieval: Rel/Exp (arabs)
Renaisance: Rel/???
Industrial: Rel/Com (oil)
Modern: Mil/Exp (Sadam)

Greek (Greek city states, Byzantines, Greece)

Ancient: Sci/Com (city states)
Medieval: Sci/Com (Byzantines)
Renaisance: ???/???
Industrial: ???/???
Modern: Com/??? (after ww2)

Babylonians (Babylonians+related tribes, Arabs, Ottomans, Turkey)

Ancient: Sci/Rel (babylonians)
Medieval: Exp/Rel (arabs)
Renaisance: Exp/Mil (Ottomans)
Industrial: Mil/Ind (Ottoman Empire)
Modern: Mil/Ind (Turkey)

Japanese (Japanese)

Ancient: Mil/Rel
Medieval: Sci/Mil
Renaisance: Rel/Mil
Industrial: Ind/Exp (1875-1945)
Modern: Ind/Com (after ww2)

Chinese (Chinese dynasties, China)

Ancient: Ind/Sci (great wall)
Medieval: Com/Sci
Renaisance: Com/???
Industrial: ???/??? (nationalists)
Modern: Ind/Com (communists)

Indians (Ancient Indian states, India)

Ancient: Rel/Sci (sumerian time india)
Medieval: Rel/Com
Renaisance: Com/???
Industrial: Com/???
Modern: Sci/Com (after ww2)

Aztecs (Mayans, Aztecs, Mexico)

Ancient: Rel/Sci (mayans)
Medieval: Rel/Mil (Aztecs)
Renaisance: Com/Rel
Industrial: Rel/Exp (war US-Mexico)
Modern: Rel/??? (Mexico)

Iroquis (Iroquis+related tribes)

Ancient: Mil/Exp
Medieval: Mil/Exp (pre-colonialism)
Renaisance: Sci/Com (fur wars)
Industrial: Mil/Exp (sioux-US wars)
Modern: ???/??? (native americans in reserves)

Americans (Americans)

Ancient: ???/???
Medieval: ???/???
Renaisance: Com/Sci (Franklin)
Industrial: Ind/Exp (conquest of the west)
Modern: Ind/Com (after ww2)

Egyptians (Ancient Egyptian dynasties, Mamluk arabs, Egypt)

Ancient: Rel/Ind (pharaos)
Medieval: Rel/Sci (mamluk)
Renaisance: Rel/Com
Industrial: Com/Ind (Suez, oil)
Modern: Com/Exp (oil, Israeli wars)

Russians (Slavs, Russia, Soviet union)

Ancient: Mil/Exp (slavs)
Medieval: Rel/Exp (early russian state)
Renaisance: Rel/Exp (peter the great)
Industrial: Ind/Mil (communists)
Modern: Mil/Ind (Putin)

Zulus (Zulus+related tribes, South Africa)

Ancient: Mil/Exp
Medieval: Mil/Exp
Renaisance: Mil/Exp
Industrial: Mil/Exp (zulus)
Modern: Ind/Com (south africa)


Feel free to comment and help me out BTW, is this idea even possible?

	23-08-2001 18:06									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'd say it kinda "kills" the idea about different nations with special abilities!

	23-08-2001 18:16									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

I'd say it kills the idea of being able to rewrite history (maybe I don't want to be the leader of a modern industrial England. Maybe I just want to kick ass all through the aeons) and what's more it's too late to change these things.

	23-08-2001 18:26									#4
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I mean for scenarios, or mod packs.

	24-08-2001 05:50									#5
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not a bad idea at all.

It is certainly more "realistic" by far than the notion of a civ retaining the same traits for 6000 years.

For those who dont like it because it gives you less freedom to build your civ - ANY civ specific trait system does that. This proposal restricts your freedom no more than does the one firaxis is actually proposing for civ3.

It is becoming clearer that the civ1/civ2 compromist between an alternate history game, a history on rails game and a "fun" historically flavored game is breaking down. (which i will discuss elsewhere) Civ3 is clearly a step in the direction of history on rails. This proposal just takes it further, and is logical for civ4.

LOTM

	25-08-2001 06:31									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

Interesting idea. For a well crafted scenerio maybe I could go for it, but for the normal game.... well I have to (mis)quote Ray Stevens on this one.... "I don't like it. Its not me."

To me it makes things too complicated, and would make good strategic planning a lot harder.

Not to mention that there are several civs that it just wouldn't do that much to, especially the Zulu. And the ???s on America just can not be filled in any way that would achieve the historical accuracy you seem to yearn for. In fact, to do your idea justice, they would probably have to scrap the Americans in favor of a people group that has at least 3000 years of history.

BTW, ancient Persia is Iran today, not Iraq, and the Persians/Iranians aren't Arabs, they're Aryans. Iraq was/is Babylon.

	25-08-2001 18:43									#7
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