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Avenoct
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NC, USA
Apr 2001
time: 00:15
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The Datalinks, or that ability are incredibly powerful, but not for the human player if they are playing too easy a game.
Many people enjoy playing a game where they get an early tech lead and multiply it. Certainly, winning is insured that way. But if you create a scenario or otherwise play at your level, share-tech is just about the best thing you can have. If you are playing against pacted coalitions of AI (see recent scenarios), you can totally forget about focusing on tech, concentrating on energy and rush-building instead. Also, if you play on a huge map with tech stagnation, gaining even a small handfull of techs through the links will make a critical difference.
Having run about 200 testgames for Aldebaran with a faction that has a 'Sharetech, 3' ability, but poor research ability, I've seen that faction maintain a tech-edge untill far into the mid-game. Trust me, AI that have share-tech or the datalinks gain techs. If you'd like to see for yourself, run a few auto-games with the editor on. Each tech discovered by anyone is announced in this format.
It comes down to 5 factors:
1. smaller the map, more tech-trading, datalinks ability more important initially, more powerful overall as the AI will trade techs often, esp. to gang up on the human.
larger the map, less the human can trade or steal tech, datalinks more important in midgame. AI won't be able to cooperate on research as effectively, human wil outpace the AI in sheer research power before the AI can contribute to his/her techs via datalinks.
2. rate of tech-research: slow tech development make any advantage more important.
3. game/scenario difficulty: the harder the game, the more powerful the AI, the more important the datalinks
4. whether the player has 'vassal states', submissive AI factions. If so, then having the datalinks isn't so important for the human, but even more powerful for a 3rd party AI faction.
5. auto-pacted (in a scenario) or pacted AI factions. When the AI teams up, the Datalinks (or sharetech) is more important than ever. Contrary to belief, AI pacted factions don't always share all their tech. Datalinks for the pacted factions increase their edge, but for the human, increase the likelihood that each tech discovered by one AI will be discovered by 3, and hence, fall into their laps.
Er, that was longer than I intended..
-Smack
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MariOne
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Erewhon in Neverland
May 1999
time: 06:15
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Building up on Ned's and Smack's exhaustive replies, I might contribute 0.02 euros to question 1.
Assume in a game you have Roze, PDL, A, B, C, D & E factions.
If a tech is known to A who trades it to B, but not to any other, the fact that there a two sharetech factions in the game does not count for a 3rd "virtual" faction, if that's what Alynzia imagined, you need and actual 3rd one obtaining it somehow.
As Ned said the key is that PDL can get a tech from any 3 faction, while Roze needs 3 infiltrated factions to get it.
If Roze has infiltrated A & B but not any other, she needs to infiltrate a 3rd faction.
Now, her best take is to infiltrate the PDL faction itself!
- Roze has infiltration on A, B & C
If the tech known by A & B is obtained by C, she'll get it, as the PDL faction will also do.
If the tech is obtained by D and/or E, the PDL will get it, but NOT Roze.
- Roze has infiltration on A, B & PDL
If the tech known by A & B is obtained by ANY other faction (C/D/E), the PDL will get it, and *then* Roze will get it too b/c PDL is her 3rd infiltrated faction.
Of course if Roze has infiltration on A & B, and a tech is known by A & C or C & D, etc., Roze just has to wake up and get some more probes doing their infiltration job!
NOTE: I'm assuming this offhand, by common sense (which often is the wrong thing to use with FurXs), as I never got to enjoy SMAX factions, just playtested them very briefly and didn't get to verify firsthand my straightforward assumptions here.
---
About defending a Pactmate's base with your probes, I remember that I also thought so, but when I actually tested it didn't work, my (HSA!) probes just sat there while my pactmate got probed.
I also once conventionally attacked an AI base which was hosting his human pactmate's recon rover (the human was also my pactmate). I took out all the AI garrisons without problems, but when I out of curiosity tested the last attack, as expected I was asked whether I wanted to declare vendetta as the lone rover was finally elected to defend.
OTOH in a similar situation (involving humans only tho), my first jet attack was denied because my pactmate's AAA plasma hosted in my enemy's base was elected to defend first.
This would suggest that the best defender in base is picked, regardless of the owner. I don't know whether a (eventually weaker) designated defender will be taken in consideration if not a base owner's unit.
Instead, against probe attacks, only base faction's probes will defend the base from probing, guest probes will not meddle in probe combat, as base probing is not a "physical" attack against them. One could wonder what happens if a local probe is engaged in probe combat but a stronger guest probe is also in base... remember that you can't designate probes.
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Bob Morane
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Belgium
Jul 2001
time: 06:15
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As said, the Pl datalinks can be very useful if some factions are trading tech. I take the opportunity of this thread to tell that you should always try to get the PLD even if you don't think you could use it (unless you really have other plans), cause this will prevent an AI from getting it (and the AI will use it).
For Roze, I think the best thing she could do is building the Empath Guild, as the x-fire version of this SP does not only give comlink for every factions, but also free infiltration in every faction.
And about my favorites factions.
For SMAC, the Gaians, as many people I think, and my second favorite is the Spartan Federation (not because I'm a militarist, but cause they are funny to play if u want to kick some ass).
For SMACx, I got it recently, so I didn't play everyone, but I have some sympathy for Roze, and Sven.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:15
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WE, I agree, the AI normally is easy. But, if you make a few mods to the game, it plays a lot better. More on that below. Right now, I am in the another serious game with the AI where LAL has been ahead the whole game and has aroung 70% of the SP's. Talk about infrastructure, LAL and every other AI's infrastructure in this game is just as good as my own. But just to place matters in perspective, the combined Planetary Governor votes for all other factions, include my own (Miriam) are aroung 70% of LAL's. It is just amazing what the AI can do if it gets the lead.
I have posted these mods in other threads, but they are:
- make all factions passive
- set all factions interests to build, explore, discover
- give them a free former to start
- delay farms to Gene Splicing
- delay mines to IA
- delay solar to Adaptive Economics
- move Genejacks to Optical Computers
- add +1 police to Fundy and Power
The human player in turn must use double-blind - no research fields selected.
Also, try using a huge or large map.
WE, if you haven't tried a game two with these settings, you will be amazed at how much better the AI plays.
Ned
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Avenoct
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NC, USA
Apr 2001
time: 00:15
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It's been awhile since anyone let a screw loose in the Strategies section. I encourage your insanity WhiteE.
I suppose I should just ignore your position on SP vs. MP being that you are clearly drunk and have been drunk for weeks. But in the interests of spurring on your rants, and possibly vaulting an opinion onto this Off-Topic, I'll venture a comment.
SP will never die. SMAC is the perfect example of why this is true. For many of us, lengthy games of strategy, in a turn based environment, are just the best thing. Some of us might play 4 or even 6 hours at a time.
I think there are really two main factors that make SP valuable:
One: It's simply the convenience of only having to find your own time rather than to coordinate the same 4 hour blocks with another player (or whatever length of time is 'optimal' for your enjoyment).
Two: SP games have a different feeling precisely because they are 'vs.' the computer, the ai, whatever you want to call it. Perhaps interacting with an AI isn't yet as challenging as with a human in the vastly complex Civ-type games, but it's somehow the very fact that you are competing with a completely logical intelligence, one that you may or may not be able to predict, one that you might be able to make empirical changes to, one that is a contained mystery. Perhaps its the same reason people masturbate, as you imply. Whatever it is, it's fun in a whole different way than playing versus humans.
For those and other reasons, SP will live forever.
Now, to get a drink and join you.
-Smack
P.S. The question of Realtime Strategy vs. Turn Based Strategy is interesting. As the off-topicers don't even talk about Civ's, I'll open a thread on this here in our otherwise pure strategy section.
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23-08-2001 19:40
). when i got smax i thought i'd try out the CyCon, but i didn't like it, so, i went for the pirates hence my little symbol thingy.
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