23-08-2000 04:53									#1
	Gnp Tired of ads?

This pales in comparison to Oedo's recent discovery about revolution dates, but it is something that I don't think anyone else has noted yet. The F11 key gives data on "GNP." I've long been curious as to exactly what it represents, and now I believe I've figured out how it's calculated, and it's pretty simple. "GNP" = (gold + (2 x luxuries)) per turn, times $1M. (The purple civilization always has an outrageously inflated GNP which I'm told is just a bug.) I haven't tested this out thoroughly, so please let me know if I'm wrong.

	23-08-2000 16:49									#2
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debeest - close, but not quite. I loaded up three old games, with the following results (no luxuries nor elvii in any of the games):

Game 1: 39 gold income, 3 gold expenses. GNP = $43 million.

Game 2: 20 gold income, 13 gold expenses. GNP = $34 million.

Game 3: 7 gold income, 0 expenses. GNP = $11 million.

	23-08-2000 18:25									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

GNP is probably based on total trade. Try changing science percentages etc.

- Rib -

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	24-08-2000 09:29									#4
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DaveV, I read your message with disappointment, loaded up another old game, and found a discrepancy much like what you cite. Rats! Then I loaded up about 15-20 more old games, and in every case, the GNP was exactly $1M x ((luxuries x 2) + tax). So I went back and checked the game that had looked wrong, and lo and behold, there were two Elvii that exactly accounted for the discrepancy. So I would bet that in the three games you checked, there are actually 2, 7, and 2 luxuries somewhere, respectively. The formula held up in small, medium, and large games, and at early and middle stages of the game (I didn't check any really late games, because I've mostly played ICS and I didn't feel like totting up the luxuries for 50-100 cities).

	13-02-2001 01:40									#5
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I haven't been playing much lately, but now I've started a new game, and I happened to check in on the GNP. $51 million. Checked my economic adviser. 45 gp per turn. Hmmm. Didn't think I had any luxuries, but lo and behold. One Elvis with a market place, producing three luxuries. My formula appears to be correct.

	13-02-2001 04:06									#6
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The incredibly high GNP of pruple civs is indeed a bug, which is fixed in MGE though... it's not in FW, however

and I think it is in TOT (fixed, that is)

	13-02-2001 04:34									#7
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its not fixed in MGE.... but then i usually play as the mongols so i dont notice it as much.. in calculating gnp make sure to include corruption

	13-02-2001 05:09									#8
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I thought it is fixed in MGE... OK, my mistake... I'm sure it#s fixed in TOT though.

	14-02-2001 08:55									#9
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War4ever -- nope, it's truly a simple formula, and corruption isn't part of it.

[income + (2 x luxuries)] per turn

Income is from the bottom of the economic adviser screen (F5). I don't think luxuries are totaled anywhere; you'd have to scroll through all the city screens one by one and add them up, but now you don't have to .

	14-02-2001 19:52									#10
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Nice observation, deebest. Amazing the secrets this game holds after so many cumulated hours of playing. Well, one more secret down...

	17-02-2001 19:16									#11
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Good job, I have always been wondering how GNP and other statistics are derived in CivII.

	18-02-2001 10:09									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

Now if you could only find the formulas for the other stats...

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	19-02-2001 00:56									#13
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so corruption isnt included? Ok does this hold true then if you have corruption that is no longer? ie.... couthouse therefore three old corruption squares now become good trade......

Sorry, i can't think straight.... that looks dreadfull

Basically i am asking if corruption is considered a trade arrow in some round about way

ok i need to go now .......

	19-02-2001 20:24									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Congratulations, debeest.
All new findings about this tricky game are welcome.
Go on testing! I'm sure that the SGs and ST will back you too!
(What about a Tester's Club? Xin YU for president? No ballots allowed from Florida?)

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	21-02-2001 05:38									#15
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War4ever -- yes, if your courthouse frees up corruption arrows to become trade, then the increased trade will generally mean more tax income, in which case your GNP will increase a bit.

	24-02-2001 02:45									#16
	Remove this text

To expand, corruption limits income and thus both taxes and luxuries. The GNP formula only considers trade and luxury arrows that actually appear on the city screens, not any "potential income" that is lost to corruption. All science income is apparently regarded as research, since it is not considered in the GNP formula.

These formulae (for the demographics screen) were all included in one or the other of the two strategy books that came out at the same time as the game, all those many years ago. I would think Ming, or the Scouse Gits, or some of the other old-timers would have those. Maybe it's more fun to rederive them anyway. Good work, debeest.