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Harlan
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Berkeley, CA, USA
Aug 2005
time: 21:15
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I could live with the deeply tanned Cleopatra. But this Alexander looks nothing like the real one. Alexander had long, dirty blond hair, sideburns, bugged out eyes, and many other features not seen here. Follow the link from the Greeks page on Civ3, about the middle of the page, where they say "he demanded it". You'll see one representation of him in the top corner of the page. His hair was usually longer than this, but otherwise this is what he looked like.
Furthermore, he did not die of a drinking binge, as the Civ3 site implies, but of malaria. Grr. Historical accuracy seems to be a low priority for Firaxis.
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The diplomat
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Terre Haute, IN USA
Sep 1999
time: 23:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Harlan
I could live with the deeply tanned Cleopatra. But this Alexander looks nothing like the real one. Alexander had long, dirty blond hair, sideburns, bugged out eyes, and many other features not seen here. Follow the link from the Greeks page on Civ3, about the middle of the page, where they say "he demanded it". You'll see one representation of him in the top corner of the page. His hair was usually longer than this, but otherwise this is what he looked like.
Furthermore, he did not die of a drinking binge, as the Civ3 site implies, but of malaria. Grr. Historical accuracy seems to be a low priority for Firaxis. |
Does it really matter if the leader does not look exactly like the real Alexander the Great? I think the idea is for the leaders to be more like caricatures.
I think that the Greeks look like a great civ to play. Their commercial and scientific bonuses will make them one of the best science civs. And, the hoplite will give them great defense so as to ward off all those pesky militaristic civs.
I think they will be lots of fun to play.
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Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
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The Metropolis known as Hunt Valley
Mar 2000
time: 00:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Harlan
I could live with the deeply tanned Cleopatra. But this Alexander looks nothing like the real one. Alexander had long, dirty blond hair, sideburns, bugged out eyes, and many other features not seen here. Follow the link from the Greeks page on Civ3, about the middle of the page, where they say "he demanded it". You'll see one representation of him in the top corner of the page. His hair was usually longer than this, but otherwise this is what he looked like.
Furthermore, he did not die of a drinking binge, as the Civ3 site implies, but of malaria. Grr. Historical accuracy seems to be a low priority for Firaxis. |
I can't speak for the art, since I'm not an artist, but as I wrote the text you're commenting on, let me just say I certainly never said he drank himself to death or anything of the sort -- I stated the facts that I found via research -- that he was known to be a drinker and shortly after a drinking binge / banquet, he died.
I certainly try to make the CotW updates humorous, but never knowingly at the expense of known facts.
Dan
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Harlan
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Berkeley, CA, USA
Aug 2005
time: 21:15
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Dan, I used the word "implies". If one says: "Alexander sat down for a nice, quiet extended banquet and drinking binge. Ten days later, he died", then the implication is that the banquet / drinking binge must have killed him, esp. since the malaria is nowhere mentioned. I appreciate the humor generally speaking, but in this case it reinforces a widely held but erroneous explanation of his death.
But don't bother yourself with a reply to this. You're much more needed answering all those questions about leaders and stacking and such back in the Civ3 General forum! 
Anyways Diplomat, I tend to get a little anal about things Alexander cos I once did a big scenario about him. Like the tag line for one of those Rambo movies, "This time, its personal!"
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YefeiPi
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Canada
Jul 2001
time: 00:15
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quote:
We should all thank the ancient Greeks: aside from devising really neat and useful things like democracy, the Pythagorean theorem, and the Hippocratic oath |
Actually, Pythagorean theroem was discovered by the Chinese hundreds of years ahead of time.
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Comrade Tribune
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Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Harlan
I could live with the deeply tanned Cleopatra. But this Alexander looks nothing like the real one. Alexander had long, dirty blond hair, sideburns, bugged out eyes, and many other features not seen here. Follow the link from the Greeks page on Civ3, about the middle of the page, where they say "he demanded it". You'll see one representation of him in the top corner of the page. His hair was usually longer than this, but otherwise this is what he looked like.
Furthermore, he did not die of a drinking binge, as the Civ3 site implies, but of malaria. Grr. Historical accuracy seems to be a low priority for Firaxis. |
The man in the picture looks like Macchiavelli, definitely not Alexander.
Apart from this the text gives the impression that the most important thing that Aristotle did was teaching Alexander. NOT. Aristotle was a more important person in history than Alexander himself. He was the inventor of, among a great many other things, logic.
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kolpo
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Again the myth that the Greece where democratic. The biggest part of the populations wasn't allowed to vote: the poor, the slaves, the womans...
A system where only a part of the people are allowed to vote and where the poor are excluded is not democracy but aristocracy.
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Ribannah
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The Netherlands, Embassy of the Iroquois Confederacy
Aug 2000
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
As I understand it, the basic concepts were known to the Babylonians, Egyptians, and Chinese well before the time of Pythagoras, but the Pythagoreans were the first to really detail the intricacies of it, as well as to provide a mathematical proof of it. |
Both the Babylonians and the Egyptians knew the theorem to hold for specific values, the Egyptians even provided proof for these values. But they did not know the concept of a "variable" and hence gave no proof that the theorem held in general, like the Pythagorians did - for integers, that is. Studying this theorem, they discovered the existence of irrational numbers and it took a while before that was mastered. AFAIK it is not exactly known how much the Chinese understood at the time.
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Eddin
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Netherlands
Jun 2001
time: 06:15
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Well I think the Greeks are represented well, wiuth their hoplite and all... except for Alex of course, who is a bleeding monstrousity...
But seriously, about the posts in "civ of the week" by good ol Dan, they lack historical value and have a lethal overdose of humour I could only laugh at once I'm on drugs or seriously dunk. Probably only when I'm both. This civ game is not meant to be humourous, it's meant to be brilliant (just not humourously brilliant, but realistically brilliant when Civs descriptions are concerned). Even when it would have been a game for humour, Dan's remarks wouldn't fit in...
Now I may sound mean, but this is my opinion, just as it is my opinion that the game is really looking VERY good, and the site too, just not your remarks... I hope people wont shoot me for saying this.
Anyway, if I wanted humour I'd go and watch Monty Python instead of listening to pathetic jokes made by people who should be giving Apolyton'ers answers to their questions.
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star mouse
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of the Barbarians
Aug 2001
time: 16:15
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Hmm, the Hoplite is the special unit that triggers the Golden Age. I guess we have to be a bit creative about starting the golden age because it's a defensive unit. Because you have less control in defensive battles, how are you going to provoke an attack on your Hoplite? Will we hope that some enemy civ attacks a city, or will we wander the map with Hoplites and hope to provoke a fight?
Last edited by star mouse on 25-08-2001 at 09:31
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Leonidas
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Poor old Alexander - he sure isn't looking like the tough, fearless conqueror of the world I have read so much about. In fact, he looks kinda whimpy. It also looks like he plucks his eyebrows. . .
Could this be a picture of Alex as a young lad, before the thoughts of global conquests seized his brain?
I think it would have been great to see Alex looking slightly battle-scarred, maybe wearing a hoplite helmet, and looking like he just stepped off the battlefield. . . Try negotiating with a leader like that. . .
As for the hoplites - a defense of 3 is good - but it was also an OFFENSIVE unit as well. Remember Marathon? The 10,000 hoplites CHARGED 25,000 Persians and defeated them soundly. They didn't stand on a hill waiting to be attacked. Nor did they sit in a city waiting for the enemy to fall on them.
The hoplite phalanx was the equivalent of the ancient tank. It should have a higher attack value.
Frankly, in this game I don't want humour at the expense of history. We have been playing the past civs BECAUSE they deal with history. So please, for Civ3 - lets make the leaders LOOK like leaders, and not something out of an artist's imagination.
I realize that you are trying to appeal to people of all ages - but, surely the library is not that far away - it contains a ton of pictures about the leaders of history. . .
Now here is a tough, athletic-looking leader:
Alexander's physical accounts show that he had a strong and athletic build, but was shorter than the average Macedonian. He was fair skinned, and his clean shaven face had a ruddy tinge to it. His eyes were gray and he was said to be a very handsome man. While leading his army he would always wear something so the enemy troops could recognize him from long distances. His brightly shining armor would glisten in the sun and he wore two large white plumes in his hat to distinguish him from the other soldiers. While not in battle, the Macedonian actually wore Persian clothing, at least during his late twenties and early thirties. His silk Persian clothing consisted of a long robe, cape, sash and headband in the royal purple and white colors.
The Macedonian King loved drama, music, poetry, and wine. Alexander also liked various exercises such as hunting, ball games and running. He was said to be an Olympic quality runner, but declined to run unless he was matched up against other kings. His pride was so great that it would not allow the possibility that someone might let him win. Though he generally liked to play sports, he disliked athletic competitions.
I realize that we live in politically correct times - but no modern interpretation can alter how people looked or acted in the past.
This is the kind of thing that happens when you don't have open beta testing - you don't get the benefit of a wide range of opinions based on playing the actual game.
Ah, well. . . back to reading. . .
 
Last edited by Leonidas on 25-08-2001 at 13:00
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