07-09-2001 15:29									#211
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Also, Iceland was the first nation to have some form of a modern parliament...directly influencing british (and american) political systems

	07-09-2001 16:17									#212
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Not Malta, but the Templars as a civilization would be interesting. Malta was only one of their possesions.

	07-09-2001 16:53									#213
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yes, you are right. The Middle Ages covers a much earlier period than I was thinking. Malta and Templars...hmmm, I'm gonna start another thread about this kind of thing. If you guys could please come there and teach me some history lessons on them because I know NOTHING about them.

Probably most people lost track of the Korea discussion here anyway, but I suppose I should try to keep it on topic...'lost cause?' LOL

	07-09-2001 17:12									#214
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Yes, you are right. The Middle Ages covers a much earlier period than I was thinking. Malta and Templars...hmmm, I'm gonna start another thread about this kind of thing. If you guys could please come there and teach me some history lessons on them because I know NOTHING about them

You proved that indeed. Malta was owned by the Hospitaliers, not the Templars.

	07-09-2001 17:14									#215
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Not Malta, but the Templars as a civilization would be interesting. Malta was only one of their possesions.

Hospitaliers, not Templars. Though the Hospitaliers had many posessions over time, like Rhodes, never at once. When they lost Rhodes they settled in Malta.

	07-09-2001 17:18									#216
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Malta was owned by the Hospitaliers, not the Templars.

I never said anything about them. In fact, I now have a 'unique x-pack' thread going if you'd care to go lay some basic info about them there.

	07-09-2001 17:26									#217
	Support Apolyton

You said: Malta and the Templars. Well, there is no connection between them whatsoever. Anyway, what info do you need? My ex-gf is Maltese, so I know a bit about the country.

	07-09-2001 17:32									#218
	Remove this text

I said Malta and the Templars just to repeat Ribannas two named civs. I wasn't putting them together (though if they were, i wouldn't know it). If you could please drop by my other thread and just give me a basic run-down on them, I'd appreciate it.

Believe it or not, I kind of want this thread to drop...anybody interested in Korea stuff can still read it.

	07-09-2001 18:13									#219
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Mark L Malta was owned by the Hospitaliers, not the Templars.

My mistake. I thought Templars was the general term for these orders, but I stand corrected

	08-09-2001 02:13									#220
	Tired of ads?

Mark, I'm wondering why you need to make it look like everyone else is an idiot in order to feel good about yourself.

And I agree with Yin, this thread has gone a bit off-topic. Just a wee bit.

	10-09-2001 16:54									#221
	Full PM-box? Change here!

South Korea

Population 1999......................................................46,884,800
GNP per capita 1997 (Atlas method, US$)........... 10,550
GNP 1997 (Atlas method, US$ billions)................ 485.2
Unemployment.....................................................................7.9%

Netherlands

Population 1999 ..............................................15,807,641
GNP per capita 1997 (Atlas method, US$)...........25,830
GNP 1997 (Atlas method, US$ billions)................ 403.1
Unemployment.....................................................................4.1%

Source: www.historycentral.com

In other words, Korea's economy is hardly any bigger than Hollands.

	10-09-2001 17:09									#222
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Note that the Dutch, as a civilization, are larger than just The Netherlands. Add Flanders and the economy is already bigger than that of the combined Koreas.

	10-09-2001 18:07									#223
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

O.K. S.Korea's is still bigger by 80.0

Care to do a UNESCO check? Just for fun...

	10-09-2001 18:09									#224
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hey, Netherlands has 7, too!

NETHERLANDS
1995 Schokland and its surroundings
1996 Defence Line of Amsterdam
1997 Mill Network at Kinderdijk-Elshout
1997 Historic Area of Willemstad, Inner City, and Harbour, Curaçao
1998 D.F. Wouda Steam Pumping Station
1999 Droogmakerij de Beemster (Beemster Polder)
2000 Rietveld Schroder House

I'm starting to think that Holland is the S.Korea of the West.

	10-09-2001 18:46									#225
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Note that the Dutch, as a civilization, are larger than just The Netherlands. Add Flanders and the economy is already bigger than that of the combined Koreas.

that's also true. but I have no idea where to get the figures of the GDP of Flanders

quote: O.K. S.Korea's is still bigger by 80.0

Pretty marginal difference. And considering they have 3 times as many people, I think Holland is doing quite a bit better. Especcially if you look at unemployement and GDP per capita.

quote: Care to do a UNESCO check? Just for fun...

go ahead...hehe

quote: Hey, Netherlands has 7, too! NETHERLANDS 1995 Schokland and its surroundings 1996 Defence Line of Amsterdam 1997 Mill Network at Kinderdijk-Elshout 1997 Historic Area of Willemstad, Inner City, and Harbour, Curaçao 1998 D.F. Wouda Steam Pumping Station 1999 Droogmakerij de Beemster (Beemster Polder) 2000 Rietveld Schroder House

Yep, I know We got a new one last year.

Though I have to be honest here. Curacao is one of our 6 colonies in the caribien, part of the Netherlands Antilles. Although it's a dutch site (Willemstad was founded by the dutch), you can debate if it can be considered a real part of Holland. All those site listed are build in medieval or colonial times. No ancient sites. (though I have to admit that I have no idea where Schokland is, LOL)

quote: I'm starting to think that Holland is the S.Korea of the West.

So we both learned something from this thread I learned that Korea isn't insignificant, and you learned that Holland isn't insignificant

BTW, my uncle has lived in Korea (and China and Britain). I think I'll question him about the country sometime.

	10-09-2001 21:06									#226
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Mark L that's also true. but I have no idea where to get the figures of the GDP of Flanders

It's almost 40% of the GDP of The Netherlands.

quote: No ancient sites. (though I have to admit that I have no idea where Schokland is, LOL)

Well, Schokland IS an ancient site
Not in the Unesco list so far are the ancient Hunebeds in Drenthe/Groningen.

quote: "Occupied and then abandoned as the sea encroached, Schokland, a peninsula that by the 15th century had become an island, had to be evacuated in 1859. But following the draining of the Zuyderzee, it has since the 1940s formed part of the land won back from the sea. With its remains of human habitation going back to prehistoric times, Schokland symbolizes the unrivalled struggle the people of the Netherlands have waged against water."

	10-09-2001 22:37									#227
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: It's almost 40% of the GDP of The Netherlands.

Cool We're kicking Korea's ass

quote: Well, Schokland IS an ancient site

Thanks for the info!

quote: Not in the Unesco list so far are the ancient Hunebeds in Drenthe/Groningen.

I know, I've been to several. Strange that their not on the list.

	10-09-2001 23:53									#228
	Remove this text

Korea comes to mind as a nation, not as a civilisation.
But the same goes for virtually all the other so-called civilisations in the game. Almost all of them are like chaff in the wind of history. They rise, they prosper, they decline, they die.
Who thinks that the world today contains 200+ civilisations?

Give me a game with eight genuine civilisations: Chinese, African, European, Middle-Eastern, Indian, Central Asian, SE Asian and Pre-Columbian American.

Why must this game become a nationalist playground?

	11-09-2001 00:58									#229
	Support Apolyton

Chinese? That doesn't fit with everything else... How about Pacific Island? Or South American?

	11-09-2001 01:38									#230
	Remove this text

Okay, change Chinese to East Asian. That is including China, Korea and Japan.

Pacific Islanders? Can't remember them building any cities. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Pre-Columbian American IS South American. The Mayans, Incas and Aztecs.

The one I'm least happy about is Central Asian. This is really a mishmash of Russian, Mongol, Kazan and some other little-known about empires. It could convincingly be split between East Asian, Middle Eastern and European. Perhaps European could be split into Mediterranean and Northern European instead. Or Western and Eastern.

	11-09-2001 02:20									#231
	Get a bigger avatar today!

You have SE Asian and *East* Asian... O.K. if not S. Americans, N. American Natives - Inuits (Aleutians), Cherokee, etc. I think Mayans were more Central American than anything...

	11-09-2001 02:45									#232
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Sandman- Pacific Islanders may not have had many huge cities, but some (Rapa Nui) were accomplished enough to build a near WoW. The huge stone statues on Rapa Nui (Isla de Pascua/ Easter Island) are quite impressive and probably should be included in the wonder list in some form.

Also Pre-columbian American does not equal South American. Pre-columbian American encompasses ALL American civs that existed prior to Columbus' arrival. Also, the Maya and Aztecs aren't South American civs. They're in North America.

	11-09-2001 03:32									#233
	Get a bigger avatar today!

This subject needs it's own thread. I'll go and make one.

	11-09-2001 05:41									#234
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: So we both learned something from this thread I learned that Korea isn't insignificant, and you learned that Holland isn't insignificant. BTW, my uncle has lived in Korea (and China and Britain). I think I'll question him about the country sometime.

Indeed. This thread has a happy ending. I hope to visit Holland, actually. I was in Denmark for a few weeks and loved the landscape and the bread I ate at a small bakery (oh, and the nude beach)...I imagine the Netherlands as similar, but perhaps I am wrong. Are you familiar with the Dana Cup? A soccer tournament. I believe we played in Copenhagen.

BTW, if your uncle lived in Korea more than 15 years ago, be prepared to hear about what a wasteland it is. LOL! Then again, maybe he enjoyed it.

	23-09-2001 18:55									#235
	Increase the size of your Attachments

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=25511

Civ: Koreans
Capital: Seoul
Leader: Sejong
Attributes: Sci Com
Special units: Turtle Boat (caraval), War Wagon (chariot)

Does anyone know any Korean Great Leaders (besides that one Admiral)?


Denmark is quite a nice country. Have you been to Lego Land? That's a blast Anyway, my uncle lived their in the early 90s when he working for Shell. 1991-93 Britain, 1993-1995 Korea, 1995-1997 China, 1997-99 Britain, 1999-2001 USA. Haven't seen him in a while sadly.

	23-09-2001 20:21									#236
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Because for a brief, shining moment, they were the most feared civilizations in the world. The Mongols have had, to this day, the largest land empire EVER in the history of the world.

Sorry to disappoint you Imran but the British and not the Mogols had the largest land empire in the History of the world. The British Empire was larger both in square miles and it had a much larger population. The Mogols did run a sizable empire for a while though....

	23-09-2001 20:40									#237
	Suffering from ads?

Is that true?!?

	24-09-2001 00:38									#238
	Put an end to popups!

Also Oerdin, the Mongol empire never came near the British in terms of unity and coordination. Although it was a remarkable achievment for its time, it was to fragmented to last.

	24-09-2001 05:56									#239
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Mark L Ok, here's a start. Did some checking on the Vikings...and they were far from being barbaric and disruptive as you said. Feel free to respond.

I have to agree with you Mark; the Vikings were fearous warriors who plunder a path across Europe big enough to drive a fleet of Caddiliacs through, however, they where also the biggest maritime commercial powers in the world at the time. They are the first civ (that we have proof) that crossed the Atlantic ocean plus they established colonies in Normandy (which later conquer England), Iceland, Greenland, Britain, Vineland (now called Labrador), and several other islands in the northern Atlantic. They also developed their own Runic alphabet and a mytholgical system that was so influential we still see in a daily baise... literally daily... as in the days of the week. That's right the several of the English days of the week are named after Viking Gods.
Do you still thik the Vikings had no possitive influences?

	24-09-2001 06:05									#240
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Felch X Also Oerdin, the Mongol empire never came near the British in terms of unity and coordination. Although it was a remarkable achievment for its time, it was to fragmented to last.

Huh? The Mongol Empire was more unified and coordinated then the British Empire? So I guess the Mongols could coordinate their forces using telegraph lines, telephones, radio, and television? I suppose the the Mongol Empire lasted for 300 plus years? Oh, wait... the mongols fell apart way before that didn't they? I guess they weren't more unified then, huh?
It's also interesting to note that the last part of the Mongol to fall apart was the Mogul Empire in northern India (the Moguls where the Mongols who converted to Islam and ruled north India). The British wiped the moguls out and totally destroyed their Empire. I guess that proves who was more coordinated and unified. Doesn't it?