26-08-2001 20:02									#1
	need some help Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hi everyone. I'm making a scenario that takes place on the world map and that begins January 1, 1492. I'm having trouble with deciding what civilizations to have and how to represent the other nations outside of Europe.

Playable civilizations right now are England, France, Spain, Portugal, Turkey, Russia, and Austria.

Originally I was going to have barbarian cities for China, Japan, Persia, Kazan, etc., etc., etc. Those would have been the places that you could conquer without penalty, and there are obviously more nations than the 7 playable ones I have now. I then thought that China and Japan shouldn't be lifeless barbarian cities because then you could conquer them and nothing would happen.

So right now I have a few choices. I can do what I planned before, except make it so that if you conquer a city that you're not meant to conquer (I hope you guys understand what I'm trying to say here ), that a penalty happens through events. So if France conquers Beijing, they loose like 300 gold or something and a valuable trading partner. I don't know. My other choice would be to turn Austria into all nations called the "Neutral" civ but then say if you wanted to conquer Austria, you'd have to be at war with all of China and Japan too. So as you can see, I need some help.

Barbarians are also natives, just so you know. The penality idea might work, but I'm not sure... I'm new at this. Any ideas or help would be appreciated.

	27-08-2001 00:31									#2
	Tired of ads?

Merging the Austrians with the Spaniards won't hurt, as both were ruled by the Habsburgs. Some scenarios do this on purpose (for example Mike Daumen's Habsburg Bid for Mastery scenario, which you can find at the Spanish Civ2 site). You should change that Austrian civ to either one of the American empires (Aztecs or Incas) or the Chinese.
The Russians didn't really get anything big going until the late 16th century, so you may also reconsider that one.
You could also extend the Turkish civ over to Persia, that won't hurt much either, so you can somehow block the land bridge to the east.
In any case a neutral civ spanning over Europe and Asia, or a native civ including America, Africa and Australia as in the CiC version is crap. A good consideration of Barbarians will do the trick, and here you can rely on the computer building Aztecs in Tenochtitlan, Aboriginies in Australia and Bantus in the Congo without these guys ever coming together.

	27-08-2001 01:07									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Stefan, I like the idea of merging Spain and Austria. One thing about that though is that I have a bunch of Barbarian cities (Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine, etc.) around Austria so they would have a huge advantage in the scenario if they merged with Spain. I'm keeping Russia just because the scenario ends in or sometime around 1750, and it'd be fun to play Russia and build it into an empire by conquering your neighbors (barbarians also), etc. For organized natives like the Aztecs, Iroquois, Incas, etc. I'm using barbarians like the rest, but for the lesser ones they will be barbarian units that can't move, fortified with a fortress over important resource squares so to effectively colonize there you have to fight them, and some are more fierce than others.

I think I might merge Spain and Austria though, and turn Austria into a civ called the "Orientals" with Japan and China merged together, but they couldn't be playable. However, if I want a playable civ I could just have them be the Chinese, and that would actually be kind of fun to play.

I suppose the Habsburgs wouldn't have that much of an advantage since the neighbors will be tough to conquer and since Portugal has a lead in colonies on Africa at the beginning, England has the easy neighbor to conquer and get resources from (Scotland), Russia will be the most difficult probably, Turkey will also have some space to expand, and France will have some space to expand. Austria is only three cities anyways, so yeah I think I'll do that.

Well thanks a bunch Stefan.

Let me show this...

Attachment: english2.gif
This has been downloaded 42 time(s).

	27-08-2001 01:08									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

And the French pikeman...

Attachment: french1.gif
This has been downloaded 41 time(s).

	27-08-2001 11:25									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Glad I could help. If there's anything else I can do, just ask.
Here's something that might be of some use to you as well (I made most of 'em for an unfinished project, only two were actually used in a scenario):

Attachment: conquist.gif
This has been downloaded 32 time(s).

	27-08-2001 12:26									#6
	Re: need some help Got spare money?

Wonderful!!!!!! a new scenario about Renaissance!!!!!!

I had started a similar scenario some time ago, but I lost everything in one crash of my computer

More Renaissance scenarios and less WW2 ones!!!

Ok, I amnot sure about the join of Austria and Spain ( if the scenario doesn´t finished so late (in earlier XVII) could be but in 1750 it is very,very late to join them), or why not join Spain and Portugal ??? I believe it isn´t a good idea.

I would rename Turkey to Muslims so you can make a bigger civilization, you can add African East cities or Malasian ones... the only problem would be that the scenario became very Eurocentric...and Trukish wouldn´t be very playable.

I would removed Portugal, they start their decandence with the joining to Spain from 1581 to 1640. I make them Barbarians or replaced by Ducth. could be more interesting in European wars.