28-08-2001 19:35									#1
	Miriam did what? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

In a recent game (SP) I had the pleasure of Miriam as a neighbor.Now, I've just bumped myself up a level so maybe things are different. But, when after a few vendetta-and "oh please the lord wants peace"s, I had to trounce her into submission. Some time later she mustered a suprise attack. You can do that? Or had Ito quickly clicked through the text and only fantisised a submission Also, after a treaty(noy a pact) would be signed, she would stand at a bases front door (sucsessfully blocking some bases completly)and ignore transmissions. Would I then be looked at with a wary eye by other factions for finally using force to remove her or is this action justified? I tend to use knowledge and green quite a bit - she never has liked my choices To whom it may concern: Thanks for the help in finding SMAX, I am really enjoying it.

	28-08-2001 17:24									#2
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Sorry - - a worm must have blown my node - my usual mistake SP should actually be single player not special project

	28-08-2001 17:32									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yeah, I had the same thing happen to me in a game I just played. I had forced submission pacts with dierdre, domei, miriam, and cha dawn when after about 20 years dierdre launched a suprise attack...luckily I had kept her contained in 2 bases, so in 5 years she paid for her treachery...lol...but the fact remains that she broke a submission pact to attack me...not sure why that happened!
BlueSpam

	28-08-2001 20:08									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

If AI is ignoring trammsion and you want to evict them, right click on the commlink for them and left click on demand withdrawel.

	29-08-2001 05:24									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Gotta luv Miriam. She is one of the most aggressive factions in the game. However, I contain her by constantly bribing her to declare war on Yang or Santiago. If you do that, you worries are over. Those factions will kill each other, leaving you to tend to other needs. Ned

	29-08-2001 16:29									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

But.. Ned... That's EVIL!!

	29-08-2001 20:01									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

This is an odd thread that seems to start in the middle.

Lefty's idea of demanding withdrawl from the faction screen seems to tick the AI off even more than doing it on the diplomatic screen. So don't do it unless you are prepared for war.

	30-08-2001 02:52									#8
	Got spare money?

You just gotta like it - - great idea Ned. That's a truly wonderful example of rule one : Better you than me (not that I wish ill on anyone ) I'd rather spend my early years on reasearch and exploration. That's why I always build really large maps and I've learned the hard way to build weapon - recycle - weapon - creche etc. Fred you're corect, it really does tick her off, I figured it was intentional, to give herself just enough time to regroup.

	31-08-2001 04:46									#9
	Remove this text

I've seen a very friendly pet Domai sneak attack me, it was early in a MP game and I had enslaved Domai, he was at war with my pact sister (AI) Diedre, one of my Colonypods, and one of Dees CP's were on the same tile, Domai attacked Dee's CP.... my CP got killed along with Dee's... I (automatically) declared vendetta on Domai, resulting in a prolonged bout of cursing. (I dont like bugs stuffing up my careful planning).

Domai was still very friendly to me, his grudge was entirely against Dee and it was only via a stupid bug that he attacked me.

An AI submissive can probably only attack you if they attack an enemy unit which shares a tile with one of your units, possibly this can only happen if your unit is non-combat. I dont like to punish an AI for actions caused by bugs, indeed Domai got let off and became a non-submissive pact brother.

edit: Oh yeah, and Ned's suggestion is a good one, if you keep your submissives (or even non submissives) at vendetta with other factions they feel they need to be in your alliance, if your pact brother is at peace with the world they might decide they dont need your help and declare vendetta against you. A global scapegoat for vendettas can help to create a stable multiple faction alliance, also enemy AI's are a lot friendlier if you convince the whole world to declare vendetta on them. (framings can help).

Last edited by Blake on 31-08-2001 at 08:48

	31-08-2001 17:24									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Blake -I have to admit to framing one of the more eratic factions with a probe team in a recent game to stave off an Userper infraction into my territory. Being a green reasearcher was just to much of a target for Marr (as opposed to a planned power faction) Once I get a few higher end weapons up on him, he will usually pick on someone else close by.

	04-09-2001 19:47									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by RedFred This is an odd thread that seems to start in the middle.

I've seen this before. Either it's a rift in the space-time continuum or the Apolyton clock is a bit crazy, again... can get quite confusing, sure.

	04-09-2001 21:51									#12
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Just a general thought about submissive not being so much submissive. It could be that an enemy just succesfully FRAMED you for something. It happened to my a few times. The worst one were when I was playing Morgan and had Santiago as my submissive as my pet for more than 200 years since 2120, and being a mostly peace loving chap I kept on giving bases and tech to my pet Miss Santiago. Then suddenly she attacked me! Almost equally strong in every aspect I didn't stand a chance against her Elite troops. Thank God (or in my case Gods) for automatic save.

,,,,,,,,,


:banned:

	05-09-2001 00:13									#13
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quote: Originally posted by knowhow2 Just a general thought about submissive not being so much submissive. It could be that an enemy just succesfully FRAMED you for something. It happened to my a few times. The worst one were when I was playing Morgan and had Santiago as my submissive as my pet for more than 200 years since 2120, and being a mostly peace loving chap I kept on giving bases and tech to my pet Miss Santiago. Then suddenly she attacked me! Almost equally strong in every aspect I didn't stand a chance against her Elite troops. Thank God (or in my case Gods) for automatic save.

When probe-team action precipitates vendetta from a submissive pactee, you should get a notice of that across the center of the screen. Trouble is, these are quick and frequently easy to miss. Big bummer.

Still, I've been burned before (never out of the blue: there was always a framing probe action behind it), and am cautious about keeping submissives at intellectual parity. They get enough of my tech to keep them growing and strong but I'd be hard-pressed to explain why my pet Miriam needed Planet Busters and Shard weapons.

	05-09-2001 01:01									#14
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I meant that Santiago pronounced Vendetta and not attacked me, THAT was the suprising part.

	05-09-2001 21:17									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Blake An AI submissive can probably only attack you if they attack an enemy unit which shares a tile with one of your units, possibly this can only happen if your unit is non-combat.

It can happen with combat units. I believe that the AI identifies the unit visible as its intended target, but the unit with highest defense capability actually receives the attack. I have been commonly attacked by submissive when in other factions bases. Another common occurrence is being bombarded into vendetta when in a third faction's base.

	06-09-2001 07:03									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I once was deliberately attacked by Santiago about 20 years in to submissive Pact. I had not treated here well, never given her any tech or bases, and was constantly demanding money in exchange for tech.

LAL attacked my once immediately after he surrendered. A ship attacked one of mine. I still suspect that that ship was given orders to attack prior to LAL's surrender, and carried out those orders after.

Ned