06-03-2001 15:31									#1
	OCC without Wonders Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'd be interested to know if anyone has attempted to play an OCC game without building any Wonders - except the Apollo Program. I've tried a couple of times, and over the weekend I succeeded for the first time, landing in 1978, three years before my closest rival. I played on a small map, normal settings, raging hordes, deity, as the Romans.

I have the 4000 BC save, so if people are interested we could make it a comparison game. I haven't made a log of the game during play, but I have enough saves to reconstruct one pretty accurately.

For now, I won't give any further details until we've determined if this would be suitable for a comparison game (so as not to spoil the fun for others). Also, I'm at work and the saves are on my home computer.

Bottom line: Has anyone else tried an OCC game without Wonders? And would this make for an interesting comparison game?

Cheers.

	06-03-2001 15:59									#2
	Put an end to popups!

I like challenges and this one sounds like fun! I'd like to try this one. I'm hoping that maybe Paul would make your 4000BC save available to his web site as comparision game..

	06-03-2001 16:44									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

It's about time for fortnight #24, and this sounds like it could be fun. So please mail it to me and it will become OCC "fortnight" #24.

	06-03-2001 16:54									#4
	Suffering from ads?

Great. I'll mail it to you from home tonight Paul. We can talk about any additional info that would be needed (proposed city site etc.) after you have the save.

	06-03-2001 17:59									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Just a small clarification - are there no wonders in the game or does the human player choose not to build any?

------------------
Scouse Git[1]

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

	06-03-2001 18:18									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

SG,
The human player builds none, save for Apollo. But I think it's safe to say that the AI lags behind in constructing Wonders too. In my previous game, the AI built its first Wonder in 200 a.d., and in this one a couple of centuries befor a.d.

Actually, I think I've only tried this challenge twice - in recent memory anyway. The lessons learned during "normal" OCC play comes in very handy; trade and bribing of units is essential.

	07-03-2001 10:42									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

4000 b.c. save sent, along with a question for Paul regarding what info/condition to include in the fortnight comparison game.

	06-03-2001 23:45									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have tryed it with no wonders and no specials.The Paulicy stands up.

	07-03-2001 00:06									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

How did you do in terms of the landing date Smash?

The one I succeeded with had two specials, none of them trade ones, so specials don't matter that much I reckon.

	07-03-2001 01:08									#10
	Got spare money?

No wonders-1931
No specials-1880s
No wonder or special-1961

IIRC.That was sometime ago.Definetly harder.No Shake's hurts the most.You get alot out of the last 10%.And you will need Mono as well.

	07-03-2001 01:36									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Smash I agree, Shakespeare's is the one you miss the most. I didn't have Monotheism in this one, but I held on to my Temple, Colosseum and 10% luxury rate all through the game, believe me! And even then, I suffered some Anarchy turns because I didn't pay enough attention to city growth and AI change of governments.

Also, bribing NON-units is even nicer when you lack Shakespeare's.

Well done on those earlier games of yours. Have a go at this one, it's fun!

	07-03-2001 02:13									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I started a new thread for OCC #24 with the download link for the 3700 BC save.

	07-03-2001 02:53									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thanks Paul!

Everyone will now have one Horsemen unit to compensate for the lacking Wonders.

Have fun. In the meantime I'll compose my log from the saves I have and post it in Paul's thread in a couple of days.

	07-03-2001 03:12									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

No Mono?I can't "we love" past 13-15 without a cathedral in addition to colliseum and temple.

	07-03-2001 03:20									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Smash,
I used the Elvii-approach. And delayed some of the We Love-ing for after Refrigeration.

Monotheism is a dead-end advance in OCC, I usually avoid those except sometimes I go for Mobile Warfare and Robotics to achieve the 80 shields. In this one however, you can get the 80 shields without a Manufacturing Plant fairly easily.

Edit: Come to think of it, Refrigeration is a dead-end advance as well... But the difference is, you need it!
[This message has been edited by winston (edited March 06, 2001).]