29-08-2001 07:17									#1
	MOO2: shining,spying,cheating Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

After a 3-year hiatus, I found myself playing again one of my faves all-time. Because of the upcoming MOO3 you say ( well mostly ), still it is almost unprecedented for me to play regularly an older classic ( even a landmark one ).

Surprisingly MOO2 is still shining, and even more well balanced throughout the game than many recent clones.

However what hit me the most is the false spy engine, well engine is a big word here for a 1996 release we must recognize that advanced espionage wasn't yet well developed within video games. Spying or not spying ( only defending agents) or even without any spy, you can be framed the same way by the AI in MOO2: the war default-setting for builder gamers, if you like....

That's some kind of cheating, and after 5 years I really don't get it: how, but HOW can a player be framed when he achieve treaties with all the AI at a point in a game ? Not to mention that you can wreck all the treaties with a long-time ally with a single tech demand...

Still MOO2 shines most than some 4X games released as recently as Space Empires IV ( a good effort though ).

	30-08-2001 06:00									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I found out that if I leave one of my spies (just one) on another race, the change of getting framed is really low, and so is the change of getting a tech. So, my advise is to use a spy on each race. Wich might be expensive if you keep loosing them. but if you keep loosing them, then it might be because the opponent has a high agent percentage, and is also dificult for other AI races to spy, as less to frame anyone.

	30-08-2001 06:21									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

Even without ANY spy targetted against any AI, AND having only one defending agent ( replacing him regularly until reaching the latter stages of a game where its % is strong ), I have an average of one framing per game.

The real numbers : having less spies than the number of controlled star systems is certainly lowering the chance to be framed; having too much and you can see 5-8 framings per game ( playing mostly at Hard, sometimes at Impossible ). This is an artificial system to keep peaceful builders on their toes, yet the warmonger players should find this suitable.

	30-08-2001 07:37									#4
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I think I never played at hard. Nor easy. Only tutor, medium because of the custom races, and impossible, where the good races to conquer are!
So I can't really comment your post.

	30-08-2001 08:51									#5
	Remove this text

I agree with zealot, that if you keep a spy against every other race you neutralise most of these "framings."

However I also think that's a cheat. Something the computer does to screw you over.

	31-08-2001 06:10									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Zealot I think I never played at hard. Nor easy. Only tutor, medium because of the custom races, and impossible, where the good races to conquer are! So I can't really comment your post.

I take back what I said.
My highest score was on hard level...
It was 2504, btw. But it was only that time! Only played once!
Oh, yeah, my second best result was on tutor...
But the rest are almost all on impossible! Honest!

	31-08-2001 07:40									#7
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Oh, I believe you, Zealot. I can also win at Impossible, but at a considerable cost of ...fun. Playing at Hard suits the most my combination of fun factor and challenge. I score between 3500-4000, for I like playing with some +++ with only slight disavantages.

I want to know at wich galaxy size and players number you usually play at Imp. Are you a real warmonger?

	01-09-2001 22:04									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

No, but I can eliminate every AI and conquer Orion by turn 200. At impossible. On a medium sized galaxy, of course. I don't like to play on Large and hate Huge, because AI expands like rabbits on awful planets that aren't even worth conquer or even destroy!

	11-09-2001 10:08									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I play Huge. Hard level.

What are the best race-stats?

	12-09-2001 05:45									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Like2frolick I play Huge. Hard level. What are the best race-stats?

Now that's my little secret!

But it changes with the opponents. Usually I play Unification and Large-Rich-Artifacts HW. Sometimes I add Telepathic.

	21-09-2001 02:12									#11
	Best Race Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The Best Race is too easy
Choose Repugnant (the disadvantage that makes everyone hate you) At Impossible, they all hate you anyway.
Choose Research Everything (what the Psilons have that allows them to research everything)
Put all the rest into research and production bonuses

I particularly like to get boarding shuttles. I can build large ships with about 6 boarding shuttles each. One of these ships has a good chance of capturing the smallest or next to smallest Antaran ships that come along every once in a while. Capturing an Antaran or 3 in the mid game allows you to easily blow by every other race. (All of a sudden you show up with Xentronium Armor and Particle Beams).

	21-09-2001 14:42									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I too like repugnant. My favorite race design:

Repugnant
-10% to ground
-10% ship defense

Creative
Democratic
Large Home World
Subterranean

My research is really excellent, and I have huge populations with Subterranean. This is really good because it makes every facility I build pay off that much more. I never get to the point where I'm not growing due to lack of space.

My early game navy consists of destroyers equipped with loads of mirved fast armored nuclear missles. With fast missle racks a single broadside can easily take out a planet with a missle base in one salvo.

	21-09-2001 18:56									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, I only recently "acquired" moo2. But I just won my first game on average yesterday in a large galaxy, 8 species with a fianl score of 2509.

My race was, aquatic
subteranean
unification
-10 spying
-.5 bc
-10 ground
Rich homeworld

As a result I had massive production bonuses from the start, and by the first galactic meeting I already had 3/5 of the galactic population. I could have accepted a win there (did the first time it came up, but I reloaded) but I kept going. After I'd crushed the last of my enemies, I took my fleet to antari and finished the game. Quite a number of my planets were 42/42 pop. :-) yumme

	21-09-2001 19:22									#14
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Creative - I finally remembered the real name
is just too powerful. As long as I have this, I can always win.
Without it, things can get pretty dicey at the harder levels.

	21-09-2001 19:33									#15
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I play on huge, average start, hard if I am not taking creative, impossible if I am.

I am generally a warmonger as I have conquered a huge galaxy using only lasers

My creative race is usually
lowg, -10 spy, -10 ground
creative, subterranean,
Last six points can be telepathic or
+10 attack, large HW, +1 tech

My non-creative race usually is
lowg, -10 ground, -1/2 food
subterranean, telepathic, cybernetic, +10 spy, large hw

	21-09-2001 20:38									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader I am generally a warmonger as I have conquered a huge galaxy using only lasers

At last, AT LAST! Someone else who is not using massively MIRV-missles! Don't get me wrong: I do recognize the MIRV-nuclear and merculite to be powerful at the beginning, but my strategy is hybrid and diversified - by the time when I begin my attacks on Space monsters and a weak AI, I've almost reached plasma cannons ( surely graviton ) at a point then where the Beam's [cost&space//attack power] ratio surpass the missle one in chemistry ( pulson to Zeon).

	24-09-2001 19:11									#17
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I like Armor Piercing lasers because even in the early game you can kill ships before they can even shoot at you. That's why I continue to use beam weapons throughout the game.

	25-09-2001 01:31									#18
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Bah..Lasers suck.

And I have to agree..later in the game, when you can HIT things with em, and use em to turn ships into butter, then Beams kick bootay!

Of course...this is ignoring the Capture Ship, which hands down is one of the coolest ideas ~ever~....

	26-09-2001 16:41									#19
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That's why you use the battle scanner, and the continious mount on your lasers. Then you can hit even with the electronic computer

	26-09-2001 18:23									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Like2frolick Of course...this is ignoring the Capture Ship, which hands down is one of the coolest ideas ~ever~....

Very true, but in MoO2 that function is undesirable to perform since I despise capturing weak AI ships ( so lame with their low beams and missles, low armor&shields ) and it really sucks having them joining my fleet ( even at Impossible ). I have capture enemy ships only scarcely in the past, and the few times I've done it I was so disappointed that I immediately scrapped them for a few BCs. That will surely be remodeled in MoO3, and only when playing it will I reperform boarding.

	26-09-2001 18:34									#21
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Sometimes it works for the AI. Every once in a while they get a real good design. I have run into large fleets that had neutron blasters, tractor beams, and transporters. I don't remember how I got out of that one, but it wasn't easy.

	27-09-2001 01:30									#22
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I do not use "Capture Ships" against the AI. I use them against the Antarans. In fact, I keep hoping that they will attack me and I will even capture an enemy planet ahead of an Antaran attack in the hopes of capturing an Antaran or two.

	29-09-2001 01:46									#23
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You don't USE the ships, silly..you scrap em, for technology!

Much more profitable than simply blowing em up..more efficient, too!

And...The Antaran's only really bug me in the early-early game...

And I can't capture em, goddangit! They must have an absolutely HELLISH Personal attack....

	30-09-2001 14:27									#24
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When capturing Antarans in the early game, expect hellish casualties--and plan accordingly. If you are at the stage of the game where you just got assault shuttles, expect to use at least 40 of them (that's 10 'picks' worth of shuttles) for each frigate you intend to capture. Don't even think of transporters--damping fields cut them to 1/4 strength before they even get to fight.

	02-10-2001 02:17									#25
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I should try that some time.

I took a highG creative race once, with the goal of invading Antares and capturing everything with one ship. Came close IIRC.

	02-10-2001 05:14									#26
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I love capture ships. It's a great way to knock out enemy ships quick, instead of slugging it out with them. Plus, they can give you a quick kill against bases.

Lasers rule: autofire, armor-piercing, continous, heavy mount with an FX arc for heavy weapons and autofire, armor-piercing, continous, point-defense, 360 for anti-missile, anti-fighter work.

	07-10-2001 20:16									#27
	Got spare money?

I barely ever beat Impossible "the hard way". It's usually with a council vote, for which Charismatic is by far the best attribute to have. Your final score sucks, but hey...

I'll have to try the advanced laser stuff. Usually I never actually get involved into wars until I have the Gauss or Plasma cannon and some decent computers and shielding. The bots never seem to be able to put together a decent ship with high technology; they can be ahead of me in nearly every tech and outnumber me ridiculously, but I'll just walk right through them with a couple of battleships. My only problem until then is with blockades.

--
Jared Lessl

	11-10-2001 05:27									#28
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Lasers rule: autofire, armor-piercing, continous, heavy mount with an FX arc for heavy weapons and autofire, armor-piercing, continous, point-defense, 360 for anti-missile, anti-fighter work.

You put AP on PD weapons? Does this actually do anything?
Realistically it seems a little ... odd.

One other thing I have noticed about captured ships is that they seem to attract an awful lot of fire, even the relatively lousy ships. Leaving a few with more vulnerable fleets and having them turn tail and run for the edge of the screen is a sure way of absorbing a lot of enemy missiles. Works rather well with beam weapons too as they are still heavily targetted and the range diffusion effect works in your favour with them being further away.

	13-10-2001 05:10									#29
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I think the main reason captured ships tend to draw more fire is that they're likely to have poorer defenses than your own, intelligently designed vessels.

The AI will target ships without heavy armor before those that do, ships with lower 'hit points' than others of the same hull size, and lager ships over smaller ones.

For example, I've seen AIs preferentially target doomstars without heavy armor over heavy armor cruisers, even though the cruisers had fewer hit point overall and were inflicting far more damge. (The doomstars in question were an experimental 'carrier' design that had already launched every fighter they had).

	22-10-2001 22:37									#30
	Ground Troops Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

My defenders have tanks and those battlebot things, but I have never been able to invade using tanks or those battlebot things. Is there any way to load up tanks or battlebots in an invasion force?