01-09-2001 22:37									#1
	How will espionage work in civ3? Inflate your Upload Space

Since the diplo and spy units are gone, how will espionage work in civ3? How will we sabotage, steal tech, etc from an enemy city?

I can only think of 2 possibilities:
1) espionage is done through the foreign advisor.
2) some military units can now also do espionage functions.

	01-09-2001 23:00									#2
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We will have to wait and se. Or ask the civ team.

	01-09-2001 23:17									#3
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Probably if you have citizens in another civ´s city (cause it was yours in the past or by inmigration) you could have information of that city (as the "see city" command of the diplomat/spy in Civ2).
Maybe the information you could have has something to do with your culture points.
But I´m not sure about that. We need official confirmation.

	02-09-2001 00:00									#4
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I am also quite curious to see how this is implemented. It is possible that Firaxis has done something really cool with espionage, and are keeping it a surprise.

That said, a comment from a Firaxian either explaining the new espionage system, or a reassurance that some cool new steps in that direction have been made, would be nice. C'mon Dan, you know you wanna tell us.

	02-09-2001 01:16									#5
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat 1) espionage is done through the foreign advisor.

I hope its through a manager-screen - either above or through the diplomacy-screen. Both Diplomat-, Spy- and Caravan-units is really not needed. And the camel is dead - we know that already.

	02-09-2001 01:26									#6
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spam the civ team.



anyway, i think city-spacific attacks could eb done by right clicking on an nme city.

	02-09-2001 01:50									#7
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX anyway, i think city-spacific attacks could eb done by right clicking on an nme city.

Well, the term 'nme city' was confusing at first, but then I grasped the wider context.

	02-09-2001 02:00									#8
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quote: Originally posted by lockstep Well, the term 'nme city' was confusing at first, but then I grasped the wider context.

The Spacific attacks is also a bit weird

I hope there is ways for espionage, so that they haven't removed it from the game.

	02-09-2001 07:46									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

I really liked the diplomat/spy units. I thought that they had too much power. (Causing a city to revolt from its leader) But useful nonetheless. I don't think that I'd like a "spy ring" sort of where you allocate resources to espionage. Besides don't you need a diplomat to physically GO to another civ to establish an embassy. Of course we don't have any new info on this subject so it's pure speculation.

	02-09-2001 13:52									#10
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quote: Originally posted by jsw363 Besides don't you need a diplomat to physically GO to another civ to establish an embassy.

No thanks! That should be an understatement. AI-controlled unit-navigation is one of the potential Archilles-heels in turnbased Civ-style games. Just look how a governor-controlled terraformer-unit executes its jobs in SMAC.

I say, put as many AI non-combat units as possible outside the enforced need of AI-pathfinding. They have already trashed the camel/freight, and by the looks of it; also the diplomat/spy. Good! (although they must still keep all above functions through appropriate screens, of course).
I can only hope that Civ-3 AI-workers are aided with some kind of automatic (but player-tweakable) emphazise terrain-improvement maturing-process when it comes to city-areas & resource-spots. And that available landareas is exploited more efficiently then in Civ-2 & SMAC - with more emphasize on coastal-cities, then working inwards. And with player map-edited potential AI-city placement beacons, making it easier to achieve optimal scenario AI-expansion city-foundations.

Any kind of "semi-cheats" and "AI-shortcuts" (in order to produce and strategical output reasonably on par with any veteran civ-player out there, on highest play-levels), are welcome here, since producing such an effective empire-infrastructure is absolutely vital, if the AI-civs shall ever stand a fighting chance.

	02-09-2001 16:25									#11
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I really loved all the actions that the spy was previously able to issue. Please, Firaxis, make spying and covert operations a vital and interesting part of the game.

	02-09-2001 16:55									#12
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maybe spys are like MoO 2

	02-09-2001 17:12									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Ralf Just look how a governor-controlled terraformer-unit executes its jobs in SMAC.

I hope that workers will at least be able to execute orders a la 'irrigate all grassland tiles within the radius of city XY'.

quote: I can only hope that Civ-3 AI-workers are aided with some kind of automatic (but player-tweakable) emphazise terrain-improvement maturing-process when it comes to city-areas & resource-spots.

Sounds like 'Public Works, but only for the AI'. Why not, as long as the human player has some chance to capture AI workers.

	02-09-2001 20:28									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

It will probably be something like BotF.

	02-09-2001 22:01									#15
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Has Firaxis confirmed no spies in the game? I don't recall this. I think they're going to be in it as units- it's silly of them to remove them from the game only because of bad pathfinding because they've saddled the AI with an even TOUGHER pathfinding dilemma than before: harvesting resources! That seems like it could be a challenge for the human player too!

	03-09-2001 00:26									#16
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Diplomats and Spies are nowhere on the tech tree.

	03-09-2001 01:45									#17
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quote: Originally posted by tishco maybe spys are like MoO 2

Oh, I hope NOT, I hope NOT! ( MOO2's a great classic of mine, I'm still playing it -again -, BUT forget about its spying engine ). Since the Civ3 team admitted to have used many cool features from SMAC(x), I guess we can anticipate some kind of infiltration based upon that in Civ3, but perhaps not via units since the espionage programming seems to be very limited.

	03-09-2001 09:25									#18
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Yes but Uberkrux that tech tree was incomplete, a LOT of units weren't in it... spaces were left open for it.

erg- all this speculation is getting to me...

	03-09-2001 09:30									#19
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markos, get Dan to step in.

	04-09-2001 10:32									#20
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I happen to like the way espionage is handled in MoO 1 and 2, very clean and easy to deal with. The Civ way is too many. I have enough units to deal with I don't want them diplomats and spys puzzing around.

The only thing that was good about diplos and/or spies is they make cheap exploring units.