09-09-2001 22:28									#31
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quote: That's either a form of revenge for not making Latvian co-official until 1989 or a questionable way of discouraging Russian imperialism.

False!

In every Soviet Republic (excepting Russia) there were at least 2 official languages: Russian AND the language of the title nation, so for example Latvian and Russian in Latvia (Russian because it was the official language of the whole USSR). In the Russian SFSR there were several autonomous units where also the language of the title nation was the co-official one. With all the consequences: school education, laws, TV and radio programs and so on.

And the individuals of Russian nationality in the former Soviet Republics are not responsible for so called "Russian imperialism".

Look at Macedonia. Albanians are killing Slavs for not having Albanian as official language. Should the Russians in Latvia do the same to be noticed???

	09-09-2001 22:37									#32
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quote: Originally posted by redfox74 Look at Macedonia. Albanians are killing Slavs for not having Albanian as official language. Should the Russians in Latvia do the same to be noticed???

Balkans are one sensitive case redfox, I don't think you should joke about it. Inocents were/are getting killed there and we may never know the whole truth about all the Balkan conflicts until the situation has calmed and new people come on the scene.

	09-09-2001 22:47									#33
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I am not joking. I am just unsatisfied with the double standards of the Western "peacekeepers" and "human rights defenders".

hypocrites

	10-09-2001 22:27									#34
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quote: Originally posted by redfox74 I am not joking. I am just unsatisfied with the double standards of the Western "peacekeepers" and "human rights defenders". hypocrites

And exactly how long did it take you to figurethat out ? Why, it is the fundamental western philosophy (!) - preferably called an "armchair war" since you can see it from your TV...

	11-09-2001 03:59									#35
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Just to clear things up...

Romanians are NOT Slavic people. They descended from the Romans and their language is a Romance language, like Italian, French or Portuguese.

Bulgarians have a South Slavonic language, like Macedonian, Serbo-Croatian, and Slovene. The West Slavonic languages are Czech, Slovak, Polish, and Sorbian and the East Slavonic languages are Russian, Ukrainian and Bjelorussian. Old Church Slavonic was a South Slavonic language, the ancestor to Bulgarian.

There were many Slavic peoples, not just the Russians and it is my personal opinion that perhaps another Slavic people (prob. the Polish or Serbs) and another Germanic civ (Norse) should be in.

	11-09-2001 04:13									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Cybergod The languages in Russia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Poland, etc. evolved from the Greek language which was spead by St. Cyrill and St. Methodius (or something, I fogot ). Yes, they all have the similar sence and meanings but if you ask a, say, Russian something in, say, Serbian, they wouldn't make heads or tales out of it!

Not quite. Greek is a Hellenic language, which split from the Slavic languages when PIE (Proto-Indo-European) broke up. Russian is thus no more related to Greek than, say, Swedish or Persian. A Russian may not understand Serbo-Croatian any more than an Englishman would understand Dutch, but it would certainly be a lot more recognizable than Greek.

Perhaps you are thinking about the Cyrillic alphabet. It was invented by St. Cyril (thus the name) in conjunction with St. Methodius, and became the standard for writing Russian, Belorussian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and now is used alongside the Latin alphabet in Serbo-Croatian. The alphabet is influenced by Greek because the two saints spoke Greek. It is unrealistic and inaccurate that two men could spread a foreign language across such a large area of land like that. BTW, Greek is full of vowels but one can write an essay in Polish without using any! OK, I exaggerated, but look at Polish text sometime! Try to pronounce the Polish city Szczecin (German Stettin looks much more pronounceable, no?) Or try Russian "mgla" (mist, fog) out for size.

	11-09-2001 17:11									#37
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Clarification on the Slavic issue:

The original Bulgars were not Slavs, but a Turkic people. They migrated to the modern Bulgaria area where they began to rule and were eventually assimilated by the local Slavs, who adopted the name of their rulers.

In a similar manner, the original Russians (Rus) were not Slavs, but Vikings from Sweden. They were invited to rule the eastern Slavs around Kiev and Novgorod, and were eventually assimilated, giving their name to the entire nation.

	11-09-2001 17:32									#38
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quote: Originally posted by JellyDonut A Russian may not understand Serbo-Croatian any more than an Englishman would understand Dutch, but it would certainly be a lot more recognizable than Greek. Perhaps you are thinking about the Cyrillic alphabet. It was invented by St. Cyril (thus the name) in conjunction with St. Methodius, and became the standard for writing Russian, Belorussian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and now is used alongside the Latin alphabet in Serbo-Croatian.

JellyDonut, you might be wondered but we do not use the alphabet which was invented by these two gentlemen. It is a common mistake. The Cyrillic alphabet was too complicate and finally was seriously changed. No Russian except historical expert can even read the Cyrillic alphabet!

BTW a Russian may understand Serbs easily. Of course we need just some days to be familiar with their way to speak. No idea about Englishman and Dutch

	11-09-2001 22:41									#39
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Serbo-Croatian no longer exists! There is only either Serbian or Croatian, which are both similar and different. Here is a simple example - Croatian language empathises to putting "j" in many words and only uses latin or Western alphabet; Serbian language eliminates most "j" in words and encourages both Cyrilic and Western alphabet to be used side-by-side. Eg.:

English word: river; not sure how to translate this... there isn't?
Croatian word: rijeka; njema
Serbian word: reka; nema

Also, the "j" is pronounced as "y" as in "yoghurt".

Serbian language has been additionally shaped by the Turks (who occupied Serbia during the Middle Ages) and slightly by the Germans (during the Nazi occupation in WW2). It is now completely different from it's 'original' version.

Croatian language has been additionally shapped by the Austro-Hungarian empire and by the Italians (who are all their influential neighbours), however it retained slighly more archaic version of the 'original'.

I know a lot of Russians AND Bulgarians who seem to understand me when I speak Serbian but they still miss out a word or two, so I need to fill it in in English . Even now as I'm heading on an web translator for Russian, and I can pretty much quess all of them! BTW, JellyDonut, fog is (I think) pronounced as "magla".

	11-09-2001 23:14									#40
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Serbs adopted some Turkish words like cizma, sokak, avlija, salas, carsija... but the word pronounciation hasn't changed that much

Cybergod, I'm not so sure that German WW2 occupation caused the additional shaping of the language. I think you meant the Austro-Hungarians who owned Vojvodina. Serbians in Vojvodina adopted some German words and there were a lot of Serbian intelectuals in Vojvodina at that time-they later worked in inner Serbia.

	11-09-2001 23:18									#41
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Russian for "River" and "there isn't":

reka and net (but "nema" is also a word which is sometimes used for it, but not often, it's obsolete)

I never learned Bulgarian, but I could understand it the first time I heard it (my native language is Russían).

"mgla" was correct for "darkness". Prononced also "mgla". But if You think Russian isn't a melodious language, You are wrong.

The origins of the word "Rus" are not clear.
There were a slav tribe in the Kiev area with the name "Rosici" which comes from the river Ros', existing there. (Ros and Rus are similar in Russian ears, Russia = Rossiya)

	12-09-2001 02:22									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Juggler Serbs adopted some Turkish words like cizma, sokak, avlija, salas, carsija... but the word pronounciation hasn't changed that much Cybergod, I'm not so sure that German WW2 occupation caused the additional shaping of the language. I think you meant the Austro-Hungarians who owned Vojvodina. Serbians in Vojvodina adopted some German words and there were a lot of Serbian intelectuals in Vojvodina at that time-they later worked in inner Serbia.

Yes probably so . Also, we adopted some French words (eg. "plaza" (the "z" with an accent that I can't find here ), "beach" in english, "plage" in French, said in French accent; "ananas" in both our and French language and "pineapple" in English), because it was considered posh at the time, o most influentual people spoke French and added a few words here and there...

And don't forget ajvar... **drools at the thought of that speciality with paprika**

	15-09-2001 13:06									#43
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX POLAND IS TOP 16 IMPORTANT. ARE YOU INSANE? Poland participated in almost every large scale European war. sure, they may have gotten beat during most of them, but they were still there fighting. again, props to the Polskas

It's nice to see Poland being appreciated these days. Many people I speak to see Poland as just being Eastern Europe's ***** around the 15th-20th century. But they still played a large part in the European theater.

UberKruX