04-09-2001 07:01									#1
	Who else is worried that Civ3 will be too different from civ2? Support Apolyton

I'm really worried that they didn't follow my advice. What I wanted was "Civ2 on steroids". Basically Civ2 with better AI, new graphics, bugs fixed and maybe a few new trimmings.

Instead we've got:

-wierd trade/support system
-culture
-no ELVIS!!!
-lousy cheap computer-generated wonder movies that only children like

	04-09-2001 07:07									#2
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i think you got exactly what you asked for... civ3 is basically going to be civ2 on a lot of steroids with some breast implants.

The old things are better (hence the steroids) and there are new things like the trade system, armies, etc (hence the implants).

	04-09-2001 07:09									#3
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but your right about the movies i wish they were still real

	04-09-2001 07:16									#4
	Re: Who else is worried that Civ3 will be too different from civ2? Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by GP I'm really worried that they didn't follow my advice. What I wanted was "Civ2 on steroids". Basically Civ2 with better AI, new graphics, bugs fixed and maybe a few new trimmings. Instead we've got: -wierd trade/support system -culture -no ELVIS!!! -lousy cheap computer-generated wonder movies that only children like

I for one, wanted a civ3, not a civ2.5, and i think i got it...

	04-09-2001 07:25									#5
	Re: Who else is worried that Civ3 will be too different from civ2? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by GP I'm really worried that they didn't follow my advice. What I wanted was "Civ2 on steroids". Basically Civ2 with better AI, new graphics, bugs fixed and maybe a few new trimmings.

In other words, you wanted another test of time?

	04-09-2001 07:28									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Elvis *IS* in it, that's all that really matters anyway and Firaxis knows this, they are no fools. I look forward to civ 3 greatly!

	04-09-2001 07:33									#7
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Osweld,

Read my lips, young whippersnapper!

-better AI
-fixed bugs (this would of course include all of the cheat's that Ming compiled)

	04-09-2001 08:15									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Some people want a 2.5, some a 3. They're not going to be able to please everyone. I guess that I wanted a substantially different game and I am going to get it. This looks like a radically different game that will be even better than Civ2.

And, unpopular as this is, I DONT want Elvis.

	04-09-2001 08:18									#9
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In principle it would still be another ToT.

	04-09-2001 08:21									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: [SIZE=1] And, unpopular as this is, I DONT want Elvis.

Blasphemy!!! You don't even deserve Civ 3!! May Sid have mercy on your soul

	04-09-2001 09:31									#11
	Re: Who else is worried that Civ3 will be too different from civ2? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by GP Instead we've got: -culture -

Culture solves a problem I had with the game, which was this:

In the end game, I would always go fundamentalist, jack up my taxes to 80%, and luxuries to 20%. I'd keep up in science through the use of spies. This made my libraries and universities worthless. In fact they cost money and were a drain on the economy. So I would sell them. I never felt right doing that. Essentially your civ starts burning books and is taking a backward step. This would aid in conquering the world faster, but every new city I took would then have its library and Universities sold. This meant my Civ was spreading darkness and ignorance around the world!

Now in Civ III, any such sale will lead to a reduction in my borders, so I'll never do it.

quote: -wierd trade/support system

Seems cool to me. It's more like the real world. The Gulf war wasn't really about protecting a small defenseless country, it was about protecting the oil supply. We'll see more of this in Civ III.

Don't fret, my friend. It's going to be a great game!

	04-09-2001 09:45									#12
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Some people just want an updated Civ 2, and some others (*cough* Yin26 *cough*)are complaining that there's not enough change.

It shows again that you can't please everyone

	04-09-2001 10:12									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Computer generated movies that are not real? No, I think those aren't in it either... hehe.

	04-09-2001 10:23									#14
	Elvis is back? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Since when has elvis been confirmed? Since all the movies are computer generated, would elvis even be that good if he was in the game?

I want Human actors to be the advisors!

	04-09-2001 10:41									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Some poster who saw an exclusive demo confirmed that Elvis is in the game. That old thread should be around here somewhere.

	04-09-2001 11:53									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Rommel393 i think you got exactly what you asked for... civ3 is basically going to be civ2 on a lot of steroids with some breast implants. The old things are better (hence the steroids) and there are new things like the trade system, armies, etc (hence the implants).

I agree: Firaxis are not stupid - they know there's a HUGE amount of Civ people who are willing to pay good money for a game which is essentially the same game as the Civ-games previously released. There was no fundamental change from Civ to CivII and I'm willing to bet that CivIII will be more of the same - no revolution, only evolution.

Not that I'm disappointed - I mean, if you want something different there's plenty of other projects out there, commercial as well as non-commercial, with truely new ideas on how to take on an Empire building game, like Manifest Destiny and Clash of Civilizations, most of which are listed right here on Apolython - no reason why Firaxis should ruin the essential concept of Civilization to go an try something new. So don't worry

While I'm personally looking forward to seeing what the future will bring with regards to development in this genre, this will not prevent me from buying CivIII. I played CivII only the other night and still enjoy it immensely

The thing I miss the most is actually the Replay feature of CivI - why on Earth did they remove this?

	04-09-2001 12:52									#17
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quote: -lousy cheap computer-generated wonder movies that only children like

Uh no... more like NO wonder movies.

	04-09-2001 13:38									#18
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yayy
it is civII with wining stuf like SMAC!
just wat i want
and culture
and trade...
but no moovys and trown room
but a palace!

	04-09-2001 14:27									#19
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All the changes from Civ 2 to Civ 3 are IMHO good changes
The palace is back, the replay is back, trade is replaced with a useful system, culture prevents rogue cities in the middle of your empire... I dont even mind the lack of wonder movies.

However, i will really miss my advisors... Not that they told me anything useful, but they were fun and interesting to watch
*cough ForeignAdvisor cough*

	04-09-2001 15:06									#20
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Civ 3 is a conservative sequel... so the whol egame was not revamped in the search of a revolution... the changes that were made seem to be good, and they are definitley not too different from civ II. I guess this will be civ II with few major new fetatures (resources/ culture/ special units), and ther rest is just made better ( graphics/ trade/war/ AI -I guess).

	04-09-2001 15:41									#21
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IMO, the release of civ3 will be very similar to the release of simcity 3000. at first people were expecting a completely new 3D game but the developers decided on adding more features, more gameplay changes, and better 2D graphics.

personally, from what i've read so far, i like the changes being done for civ3.

	04-09-2001 16:20									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns ... the replay is back...

Ah splendid!

quote: ... I dont even mind the lack of wonder movies.

Neither do I. I only watched them once anyway. Important thing is that the actual gameplay is spiced with just the correct amouth of bells and whistles.

quote: However, i will really miss my advisors...

Well, I wont miss them. As with the Wonder movies I only watched them all once, then switched them off. Oh well each to his own

quote: Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave Civ 3 is a conservative sequel... so the whol egame was not revamped in the search of a revolution... the changes that were made seem to be good, and they are definitley not too different from civ II. I guess this will be civ II with few major new fetatures (resources/ culture/ special units), and ther rest is just made better ( graphics/ trade/war/ AI -I guess).

Exactly - couldn't have said it better myself

	04-09-2001 16:34									#23
	Inflate your Upload Space

I am happy. In fact I wouldn't mind even more change from Civ2.

	04-09-2001 17:32									#24
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Hmmmm, Yin thinks its Civ 2.5 you think it is Civ 8.



IMHO, This is at most an upgrade and I believe that Yin is right. It is very conservative upgrade. The only Item that is entirely new is culture.


That does not mean I do not like what they have done. In fact I do like all the additions, especially the interface -s. There is no radical departure from Civ I or Civ II that I see.

	04-09-2001 17:56									#25
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quote: Originally posted by jglidewell The only Item that is entirely new is culture.

Resources as a prerequisite for building units will completely change the game dynamics - Rather than going to war with the Zulus 'cuz they annoy you (ala Civ2), you have to balance in a number of factors.

The Zulus may have a resource that you need, and are trading it with you. But once you go to war with them, you dont have any access to that resource. In this situation it would be a good idea to pick on someone else, or be peaceful.

On the other hand, the Zulus may have a resource that you need, but refuse to trade it with you. In this situation, you would be almost required to invade those pesky Zulus to gain access to the resource.

A reason to go to war is a radical departure from Civ I / Civ II IMO

	04-09-2001 20:09									#26
	Tired of ads?

I think it will be just fine as they have designed it, based on Civ 1, not Civ2.

	04-09-2001 21:25									#27
	Re: Who else is worried that Civ3 will be too different from civ2? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by GP Instead we've got: -wierd trade/support system

Don't worry GP. After a couple of months even you'll grasp this concept.

quote: -culture

On this issue I must admitt there is no hope for you

quote: -no ELVIS!!!

We agree, but don't let it go to your head

quote: -lousy cheap computer-generated wonder movies that only children like

Drink a coke and relax GP. Movies are boring after a while and they are O U T

Here's a dollar of my money, do you want more

	04-09-2001 23:50									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

exactly.

you want civ3, you don't want civ 2.5.

think back a bit.

Civ1. then came civ 2. and what did it add?

a "weird" diplomacy system.

just like your "weird" resource system.

maybe civ4 will feature a "weird" religion system

keep on going stong sid.

	05-09-2001 00:37									#29
	Re: Re: Who else is worried that Civ3 will be too different from civ2? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Don't worry GP. After a couple of months even you'll grasp this concept. On this issue I must admitt there is no hope for you We agree, but don't let it go to your head Drink a coke and relax GP. Movies are boring after a while and they are O U T Here's a dollar of my money, do you want more

Hey fooker! BTW, I liked your comment about how euro types need to start taking care of own selves...stop relying on/blaming Uncle Sam...

And the movies and advisors gave the game a special feel when I was a newbie. I could do without them now...but doesn't Sid want to attract new players?

	05-09-2001 00:41									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

No,
I'm worried civ3 will be too close to civ2 still, though civ3's new features and additions seem more than enough to make it well worth getting.
I'm unhappy that there dosen't seem to be much change in the Tech tree and am not convinced there will be many new units added, and theres still the big problem of only 8 civs playing at once.
If i want another civ2 i'll play civ2, I hope civ3 is far better, keeping the good parts of civ2.
I'm sure there'll be a civ4 when they've got the profits from civ3 to make it,
hopefully 4 will be a full3D game with realtime battle scenes ( oh dear the civ inquisition will flail me alive )

PJ