04-09-2001 17:41									#1
	Scenario ideas Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I realize that this forum isn´t very active and ToT in general doesn´t seem to be very popular, let alone ToT scenarios, but anyway...

There has bee a serious lack in ToT scenarios, and of course, you can convert Civ2 scenarios to ToT... But that misses the whole point, because those scenarios won´t use the range of extra possibilities ToT has. Tell me, how many ToT scenarios actually use multiple worlds? Is anyone working with CSPL yet?

I´ve had some pretty brilliant ideas for ToT scenarios, but I´m in no position to create them myself, or at least not on my own... So here are some ideas I have:

Oh, yes one first question. Are there Civ2 scenarios that consist of multiple scenarios? For instance are there people who´ve created a whole range of scenarios, to be played in sequence, each of them focussed on a small part of the whole.

Lord of the Rings
What about having a separate Visible world map, and an Invisible world map? That is, Frodo will have native transport capabilities. If he "puts on the Ring" he goes to the invisible world, where he can only be seen by other special units such as Tom Bombadil, the Nazgul and Sauron, and perhaps the other ringbearers like Galadriel, Elrond and Gandalf. Movement in the invisible world should be harder, and there should be impassable parts. Otherwise the player could simply enter the invisible world (with its few units, only the Nazgul will be a threat) and pop back up under Mount Doom.
Perhaps it would be even nicer to have all of the LOTR split up in several scenarios. For instance, first the hobbits´ journey to Rivendell, then their journey to Moria, then their journey down the Anduin etc.

The Hobbit
Does anyone know of a Hobbit scenario? I have been working on one, but I haven´t gotten any further than creating a map. But everytime I read the Hobbit again, more and more ideas come to the surface. The book could be split up in several scenarios. Say, a scenario where ll dwarves are in their cells in the Elvenking´s Palace, and you as Bilbo Baggins should free them and escape to Laketown. The entire cave would consist of multiple levels, mazelike hallways etc. etc.

North Sea Energy
Something I thouh of because of one map in my Atlas. What about an economical "battle" for energy. countries surrounding the North Sea have to locate and delve local resources, such as Oil and Gas, and transport it back to the mainland to create revenues. Units could include Oil Rigs etc. Somehow players should be able to create oil pipelines, do testdrills to find oil, create oil rigs and then transport oil to the mainland...

So, does anybody feel inspired? (Please don´t give the classic answer that I should try it myself if I like it so much.)
Does anyone have any other ideas?
Please share them. Maybe something will come out of it.

	08-09-2001 00:32									#2
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Funny that you should mention the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit. Scenario versions of both are in currently in production for Test of Time. The team working on Lord of the Rings is pushing to complete it before Civ3 comes out and they are likely to succeed.

Though this forum does not get a great deal of traffic, scenario design for ToT is alive and well. Many well know designers have forsaken FW for the array of new features that ToT has to offer.

	08-09-2001 00:58									#3
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youre right about the multiple worlds potential

Ive converted plenty of scens, and Ive played seeds of greatness and great game, but those arently really "TOTish scens.

Europe in Flames uses the map feature to model the battle of the atlantic ( a seperate world from Europe, with portals in England and Gibraltar) I had the same difficulty getting into that as I do with most Civ WW2 scenarios - I know a lot of effort and talent has gone into them, but i am still think this is the wrong engine (of course I havent trid Red Front ) Not that I can think of Grand Strategic level game with scenario building options that could be used instead of Civ.

Ive played Ian Thomson's LOTR scen, which uses and underground map for Moria and Cirith Ungol, but its not the additional map is not really that central - its much easier to avoid Moria and Cirith Ungol (playing as Gondor)

I havent yet tried the Mars scenario, or Time threat paradox - presumably those make fuller use of the multimaps. And I have never played Migard (other than LOTR Im not a big fan of fantasy).

On the one hand i enjoyed playing the sci fi game almost all the way through - i had almost won when i got bored and went back to original, and historical scens. I like the multi-planet idea - BUT - the overlay map idea makes little sense for interplanetary travel - why should a ship that launches from the North Pole of Funestis only be able to land on the North Pole of Naumachia? (And ditto for any sci fi scens) Sci fi may not require historical accuracy, but there are still realism conventions.

So I suspect it will only work for scens where different levels on one planet are important - like an air - surface -undersea naval battle, or a purely fantasy scen, or perhaps, like time threat paradox, a time travel scen.

How about an "Island in the Sea of Time" scenario - like Sterlings book where late 20th c Nantucket goes back to the bronze age, the islanders make it contact with the major civs of the era, and pass on a good bit of modern tech with complex results (note i have not read it, but you hang around soc.history.what-if long enough you pick this stuff up)

LOTM

	14-09-2001 11:29									#4
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Regards -

quote: "Island in the Sea of Time" scenario

I did something similar to this a while back & caled it "Multiverse" if anyone wants a copy to play with . E-Mail me & I'll send it on - or William, if you would like a copy for http://civ.cx - let me know & I will post it.

Here is part of the blurb on it.

"MULTIVERSE - Interdimensional Portals Scenario"

Earth :
The planet in this game called Earth is ver similar to our Earth,
but the shape and placement of the islands and continents is very different.

Earth has an Undersea Zone - a "Deep Ocean" realm for covert Submarine operations.
The modern submarine (but not U-Boats) can travel between Sea Surface and the Deep Ocean,
submerging and surfacing at will, provided that the Sub is not in shallow water over the
continental shelf. Subs can thus escape attack from surface naval units or air units.
Subs can also carry Missiles so as to lie in wait in the deep ocean trenches waiting to
surface to attack enemy targets at an opportune time. Note that unlike the modern sub,
U-Boats can only skim under the surface of the sea, they cannot 'dive' into the deep ocean.


Barren World :
Food is scarce in the Barren World. However it is very resource rich.
To build cities successfully here you will need to build your cities
on on Bare Rock tiles, near Sludge Mites and Spore Clumps. Set up food
trade routes from your Earth base cities. Irrigate any surrounding bare rock.


Ancient World :
Internal combustion engines do not work in the Ancient World.
You will be forced to rely on less powerful, slower units and employ different tactics
to those that are effective on our Earth.



Note that the 3 alternate worlds are similar, but not geographically identical.

Once Interdimensional travel is discovered, Dimensional Portals can be
built to enable transit from the Earth to 2 other worlds

Also, The Norse have a myth regarding Yggdrasil - the world-tree on which
Odin was bound and hung. The Norsemen speak of knowing “nine worlds”,
linked by the roots of the great ash tree Yggdrasil. Beware the Yggdrasil mist.

To Win - Conquer the other 6 civilisations which are scattered across the
various alternate worlds.

You can either start out in the modern world and attempt to discover InterDImensional
Portal Technlogy in order to reach the other alternate worlds or you can choose to
play as the Indigenes or the Norsemen on one of the Alternate Worlds, build and
develop your Civilisation there and wait for the other Civs to invade from an alternate dimension.

The sequence of activity in order to win runs something as follows :

- Beat the existing tribes on Earth with the existing & new Civ2 units, without the aid of some of the classic wonders (and without the aid of protective city walls once the "Cannon" comes along or "infinite-travel" railways until after superconducting).

- Discover Interdimensional Portals

- Build portals from Earth to Barren World and establish a foot hold on "the barren world", avoiding (or destroying) any hostile (Barbarian) lifeforms there, and ensuring that the Barren World Colony has enough food to grow.

- Build portals to Ancient World and establish a foothold there.

- Create a non-mechanical army (without an effective Navy or Airforce) and defeat the Alternate Ancient World Norsemen / Indigenes on the barren world with the reduced set of Units available on the Ancient World. This of course means that any "clippers" used to ferry troops from Civs from the Modern Earth world from one island to another will be at the mercy of any "Frigates" that happen by, and that the Norsemen / Indigenes will have the advantage of Horse troops, where the modern Civs will not (apart from Scouts) unless they can bribe them.

(Of course the technologies that the Norsemen / Indigenes have been able to research will have limited their units to those avail. prior to the discovery of Gunpowder until they can trade / steal new techs from the invading Earth Civs.)

- Become the sole surviving Civ on all worlds.


Note that there may also be some 'anomalies' or weak points where the gap between the worlds is close. The Norsemen have a saying that refers to these places "The cloaking mist from Yggdrasil - The world tree".


2 Alternate Scenarios provided to maximise replay enjoyment.


See also previous posts in this Forum (many months ago) - Look for the key word - Multiverse.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...ight=Multiverse

	14-09-2001 17:35									#5
	"Island in the Sea of Time" scenario Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Kestral - send it to me. Include a few screen shotsif you can.

	14-09-2001 20:42									#6
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Nice to hear about the Hobbit and LOTR, William. Have you received my e-mail reply? I do hope those scenarios will have more of an RPG feel. I personally don´t really like those large-scale war scenarios (which Harlan´s LOTR scenarios was).
By the way, I´ve just downloaded a bunch of scenarios from the Cradle... You made the Necrociv one, right? I was just browsing through the files, when I saw my name (well, with an extra "t") as the first city of the Free Cities. Now I just have to love that scenario.

LOTM (or anyone else), a Mars scenario? I know the TTP, but I´ve never heard of any Mars scenario for ToT...

Kestrel, I just downloaded the scenario from KhanMan´s website. Is that still the latest version? Otherwise, send it over to siberia@planet.nl

	15-09-2001 02:11									#7
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quote: Nice to hear about the Hobbit and LOTR, William. Have you received my e-mail reply?

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I'm an American and I live very close to the former World Trade Center. This week has been difficult and my mind has not been on scenarios.

quote: By the way, I´ve just downloaded a bunch of scenarios from the Cradle... You made the Necrociv one, right? I was just browsing through the files, when I saw my name (well, with an extra "t") as the first city of the Free Cities. Now I just have to love that scenario.

Necrociv was me, glad you liked it. Eighty or so Apolytoner names were morphed into city names in that secenario. Some are easy to recognise like yours, others are not.

Necrociv is a technicial paragon but not fun to play. I wanted to see (and demonstrate) what ToT engine could do. If done over, balanced, and playtested it could be a great scenario - but I don't recommend the current version for play.

quote: ... a Mars scenario? ...

Mars

	16-09-2001 05:30									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have an ancient Roman scenario that I never finished but might give some ideas on how the 4 maps can be used.. Its here at
http://www.geocities.com/slapshot22...main/Caesar.zip
you need the tot patch to use this scenario.
It begins with you in Gaul as Julius Caesar and continues out through the civil wars and death of Cleopatra. You might take a look at the events. I destroyed one world with it and continued the game on another.


Geocities/yahoo always has problems downloading....you might need to type in the site manully. You can go to the site and download it too..... its called Caesar.

http://www.geocities.com/slapshot22...in/preview.html

	18-09-2001 00:12									#9
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quote: Originally posted by William Keenan quote: ... a Mars scenario ... Mars

Weird, that scenario is in the same section as Necrociv, and I downloaded that just before my post. I must´ve looked over it or something.

	18-09-2001 02:50									#10
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Mercator Weird, that scenario is in the same section as Necrociv, and I downloaded that just before my post. I must´ve looked over it or something.

Actually, I just moved it to Scenarios from the Modpack section.

	18-09-2001 10:53									#11
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I've been playing around with a remake of the alien scen (a personal favourite ) from CiC for a while now - basically utilising ToT's multiple maps but little else.

A few other ideas can be found in old PnP RPG's - I've played around with some of them but never really come up with any good, innovative ideas (plus they would all involve fairly extensive graphics - a department in which I, er, well just plain suck ). Many of them - fantasy/sci-fi especially - are ripe with possibilities involving multiple maps - using dimensional travel etc.

Rifts (Palladium books) - One of the best (IMO anyway) settings ever. Scenarios could range from the Coalition States anti-magic campaigns in North America or the NGR wars against the Gargoyles in Central Europe to large cross-dimensional wars between the Splugorth/Kittani and the Mechanoids or any number of other foes. Inter-world portals are Nexus Points which can randomly spawn Demons etc.

Torg (West End Games) - Earth invaded by the Highlords of different cosms seeking to strip the planet of its inherrent energy. Inter-world portals represent the maelstrom bridges created by the highlords. Storm knights are able to use them to travel back to the home dimensions and combat them there.
Occupied Earth represented by terrain impassable to all but Storm Knights?

	18-09-2001 18:37									#12
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Possible you can have a rise to power scenario as such one map is a city map were they fight it out for control, the second map could be a world map and third map for the space and such.

Another idea is a full scale star trek scenario with a map for different sectors of the universe.

I'm starting to look at the potention of the macro language of using of flags and masks and it looks very promising. Hate to ask but is their any really good scenario's out there that uses the flags and mask very well.

If something happends, turn flag 1 on
if something happends again, turn flag 2 on
if something happends a third time, turn flag 3 on
if checkflag and flags 1,2 and 3 are on, blow up the map. Something like that. Sounds not that difficult right?

The new CSPL seems difficult to learn. But I'm trying it out.

Did I say I'm retired before, guess things changed.