21-07-2002 02:59									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat this might be one thing to look at, especially if coupled with Martins in-progress Good dependant Mod.

The first thing that came to my mind when i read that thread was this colonies system.

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat I couldn't be bothered to reply 10 months ago. Then Locutus linked to it in the Civ3 resources thread, and I thought this thread was worth bumping. Its a good idea.

Funny i never knew Locutus had linked this thread. It just dropped since there was no solution to the slavers bug

PS: This idea dont have to be forgotten at all. It can be use in scenarios with no slaves.
I even plan to use it in my Space Scenario (I will finish it one day) since it is not going to have slavers.
The UI problem could be solved by changing its name adding a "*" before the city name.
Just hit me :Isnt there a way to rename cities by slic?

	21-07-2002 05:00									#32
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CoT,
The happiness system in CtP2 is set up differently than the one in Civ2: even with pop 0 you can still have unhappiness (I think, never actually tested it), but that's not a big deal because SLIC can deal with that.

quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn The UI problem could be solved by changing its name adding a "*" before the city name.

Yes, but when I want to know how far I am from hitting the city limit, I just check the total number of cities, a statistic that would become meaningless when colonies are introduced...

quote: Just hit me :Isnt there a way to rename cities by slic?

No, I'm afraid not. SLIC is very poor with strings (=text)...

	21-07-2002 22:16									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus Yes, but when I want to know how far I am from hitting the city limit, I just check the total number of cities, a statistic that would become meaningless when colonies are introduced...

Surely it wouldn't be too difficult or annoying to have an information message each turn or maybe every N turns (with a few choices for N) e.g. "Your mighty civ consists of 15 cities and 5 colonies - you must arrest your expansion soon or suffer unhappiness (at 20 cities)". I was considering a similar (but more involved) thing for culture.

	21-07-2002 23:13									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus Weren't you one of the guys who posted a 'can we have a Civ3 mod?' thread...

Oh, right. So if it's Civ 3 style? I still want such a mod to be reality.

	23-07-2002 18:16									#35
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John,
I guess that's possible. In this case you could even make a message pop up whenever you threaten to approach the city limit, not just when you're already past it...

Solver,
Well, one of the things we do here is take ideas from Civ3, improve them, and put them in CtP2 So yeah, kinda like Civ3

	23-07-2002 19:15									#36
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Yeah, but now how real it is that we will do it all? Oh, and we can't, alas, reach civ 3 in diplomacy.

	23-07-2002 19:28									#37
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Why not? It takes time but CtP2's diplomacy is getting better and better all the time... some say it's already better than Civ3 (more choices, more dynamic)

	23-07-2002 19:33									#38
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Yeah, but the system can't be the same. I don't think the CtP 2 engine will allow a I give you X AND Y for Z.

	23-07-2002 19:40									#39
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Well, my human2human diplomacy system does...

But for the AI, I wouldn't know. The AI can probably handle it, but I'm not sure if the UI can...

	24-07-2002 04:36									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus Well, my human2human diplomacy system does...

Did you make any progress with the string problems you were having there?

	24-07-2002 05:16									#41
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No, 'fraid not. Haven't made any progress. Being an Apolyton staff member is very time-consuming work, I'm afraid, especially when combined with a busy personal life (or at least the way I do it)

	24-07-2002 17:20									#42
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That's why you should forget about staff and head to it! UI can be tweaked, right? Because my wishlist is:

1) Strategic resources (quite real)
2) Such complex diplomacy
3) Culture

	24-07-2002 21:16									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Solver That's why you should forget about staff and head to it! UI can be tweaked, right? Because my wishlist is: 1) Strategic resources (quite real) 2) Such complex diplomacy 3) Culture

Could you point me to where strategic resources is being solved? I would really like this in CTP2.

As to number 2, I think the Diplomacy in CTP2 has the potential to be much more advanced than Civ III (in terms of the variety of diplomatic options presented), however, the AI doesn't seem to respond to offers very well or at all.

example: I am playing a game where I have been cutting through the Yamato like a hot knife through butter (the problem now is that if I take any more cities I'm over the 60 city limit for a caliphate), however when I offer peace, I ask for some gold in return. If I ask for 1000, no way. 500 no way. I have only ever managed to extract 100 gold out of the AI. But I'm ranked #1 in all categories and whipping up on them.

Also, trading world maps: I ask for theirs and offer 10,000 gold, they still won't give it. (I have from time to time received world maps from the AI however, just very infrequently).

If I knew enough about all the text files, it seems that there should (or may) be a place where the AI is given relative weights for each of its responses to diplomacy just as it is assigned weights for attacking cities or defeneding or pillaging imporvements. Perhaps these could be relaxed a little, so the AI would enter into more deals. Right now it's down to peace/no peace.

	24-07-2002 21:26									#44
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Well if the UI for diplomacy can be made advanced enough, that the AI can be tweaked by the programmers, too.

I remember offering 70 thousand gold for the last Alliance I needed to get the Diplo win.

	25-07-2002 03:03									#45
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A variation on the concept of strategic resources is being tackled in the 'Good possibilities' thread.

	06-08-2002 00:43									#46
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pedrun this is so easy to do give me a few months and I could get this to generate off a tile imp let alone a unit with slaves just wiping past it.

	06-08-2002 04:49									#47
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While watching a documentary about the Essex on the Discovery channel a thought struck me....

Can whaling/fishing fleets be instituted as "mobile colonies" on the seas? I would imagine that once made/launched you might not have control over them (see them). You would occasionally get reports of sightings of a school of tuna or a huge haul of whale taken far from home. Perhaps even the loss of a ship due to storms.

I understand it is rather random (and thereby less desirable) a situation but whaling served as a huge business for coastal towns in the 19th and 20th centuries. And the lack of control would simulate some of the apprehension and risk involved for coastal cities. That rely too heavily on a single industry.

I suppose a democratic situation could also arise where there would be a requested ban on whaling?

Just some thoughts

	06-08-2002 05:03									#48
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I guess you can set up a "Whaler Industry" building that made a SLIC event so that at random, every few turns you got a food bonus, or extra population point.

I can't see an advantage over placing nets though...

	06-08-2002 05:08									#49
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True, true....

Hadn't thought it through, I suppose. ...

No need for complexity for complexity's sake.

	06-08-2002 07:13									#50
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BigMc, You lost me. Can you explain in details what you are up to?


ToonGoon, you gave me an idea What about a new kind of
colony. Using units.
I will try to explain

code:

HandleEvent(BeginTurn) 'unittraders' post {
- get unit by index
     - if unit type is a merchant (or whatever)
     - check if its location has good
         - If there is and unit is entrenched
              - look for nearest city (if is sea unit look for nearest city with beach in it neghbor
              - this city collects good 
}

Last edited by Pedrunn on 06-08-2002 at 08:37

	06-08-2002 07:41									#51
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Pedrunn, I have to admit that since I'm not really a SLICer that I merely skimmed over most of the posts. I did see that size 0 cities were being discussed. I assumed that making colony "units" was considered and dismissed already.....

Well, glad I could help at least move the discussion in another direction.

	08-08-2002 06:39									#52
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Pedrunn, how do you make a city collect a good when this good is not in it's radius? I'm not sure if this is possible (but my knowledge on good-related SLIC is not that great so that doesn't have to mean anything)...

If that does work, you would ideally want to use a tile improvements as colonies: they don't increase city limit/screw up the UI, they can't cause problems during capture (I have no idea what would happen if you tried to capture a size 0 city but I'm sure it would cause *some* sort of problem for this feature), they don't make it impossible for size 12 stackt to enter the tile, etc. Basically it would be identical to city expansion (you could even reuse the graphics) but this time it would have a far greater impact on gameplay...

	08-08-2002 16:32									#53
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Tile imps might well be less problematic - still you will be restricted to your city limits won't you? Is it possible with SLIC, to place a tile imp outside of you cities control area or empire border?
You could just 'pillage' an enemy colony to get rid of it - which would force some units to sit in defense of a good colony.From a MP aspect this would be great!

	08-08-2002 17:23									#54
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It is possible to create a tile imp outside of your border if it's a fortress-style one (and I believe you can set this flag in other timps - IIRC it's in the FAQ) so long as it's within unit sight range. Even if it's not possible to trade the good, it could still be taken into account for purposes like the good-dependant advances.

	08-08-2002 17:38									#55
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Doh! yeah stoopid me - i knew that
Martin has done some good stuff with the Fort, like using it to extend borders and getting the AI to use it to join cities by road.So that could be good to look at?

	10-08-2002 01:17									#56
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well then pedrun I had the idea of actually growing colonies in to small cities but make any pop over 1 migrate into a bigger city so a colonies allows your cities to grew quicker.

Then when the capitol makes a improvement like force field it then automatically grows over the colony.

I also had the idea of making the colonies of a tile imp.

Is that better.

I am just working on the slic now.

The other thing I am working on is two kinds of colony Land and sea the sea coming after naites or something

	10-08-2002 01:38									#57
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The Tile Improvement colonies are better than city colonies.

But i dont believe that the tile improvement code is going to work.
All my hope lies in the CityCollectingGood(city, good) function not used to return a interger but to do something (as a void).
The function has this text about.

code:

INT CityCollectingGood(city, good)
Return the amount of a particular good being collected in the city (excluding goods being brought in via trade).  Example:

if(CityCollectingGood(city[0], GoodDB(TERRAIN_DESERT_GOOD_ONE)) {

       //do stuff

}

//find out whether city[0] is collecting the Glass good

So it wasnt made for this mean at all. Yet "hope is the last one to die" (brazilian proverb).

The major problem about your solution is the radius of the colony wich will be 1 instead of 0 like i want. Unless we make all city 1 size with radius 0.

	10-08-2002 02:02									#58
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Pedrun I want a smalle city radius it allows for the colonies to grow near by cities.

And from the improvement I was going to grow a city on top of that I have a sprite witch totally sea throw so you would just sea the tile imp.

	21-08-2002 19:23									#59
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So whats the latest on this.

Is it possible, it would be a great feature and what Jbytheway mentioned about every few turns having a message that said how many cities and colonies you had, this could be implemented along with the World Report that i mentioned in one of my other posts

here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=59262


SMIFFGIG

	28-08-2002 01:33									#60
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i am working on the way to limit the size of the colony after that its childes play

any way i am having fun