06-09-2001 11:08									#1
	Wonders of the World now require RESOURCES TO BUILD!! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Here's a snippet from the translated version of the German video


"With this new trade system you trade with friendly civs in culture, technologies, units, cities or one of the 30 resources with whom you can build the old or the new wonders used in Civ III. "


Obviously, this is huge and adds untold layers of strategy to "the old wonder races". Theoretically, if a small empire gains a large majority of the materials needed to build a certain key wonder, than they can go from rags to riches over night.
Great, great stuff...the plot ever thickens on the tale of Civ 3

	06-09-2001 16:51									#2
	Re: Wonders of the World now require RESOURCES TO BUILD!! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by monkspider "With this new trade system you trade with friendly civs in culture, technologies, units, cities or one of the 30 resources with whom you can build the old or the new wonders used in Civ III. "

Wonderful stuff!!

	06-09-2001 17:11									#3
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Hmmm, sounds interesting...

	06-09-2001 17:19									#4
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This is definately a good thing - makes the wonders race all that more interesting, and not so *easy*

	06-09-2001 18:09									#5
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This is definitely a step in the right direction for Civ3!

And I hope Firaxis take the resources thing as far as they can... I mean, I don't want a single wonder, even if it's ancient, to be built only with shields...

	06-09-2001 18:20									#6
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The resource system is really the best thing that could happen with the sequel to civ 2 !
For sure in combination with diplomacy !

Second to the resource system is the culture system !

I'm really positive about civ3 !!!
Now I have to decide to wait for civ3 ordinary to be released in Europe 3 weeks after the release in the US or to purchase the special edition over the internet............

	06-09-2001 18:37									#7
	Re: Wonders of the World now require RESOURCES TO BUILD!! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by monkspider or one of the 30 resources with whom you can build the old or the new wonders used in Civ III

30 resources?? I thought there were only 24 and of those, only 8 were useful for building stuff with... Wish we knew more about these resources, sounds like they will be *very* useful in terms of gameplay

	06-09-2001 20:13									#8
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Oh my!

No more of stupid AI 1-pop city building a wonder in 1 turn.

That better do not happen!

	06-09-2001 22:11									#9
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Good news Ranger, the AI doesn't cheat at all, save Diety level.
Check the Finnish article thread for more info.

	06-09-2001 23:30									#10
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Good news Ranger, the AI doesn't cheat at all, save Diety level. Check the Finnish article thread for more info.

Lets hope cheating human players can restrain themselves also. Some love to routinely exploit unintended cheat-shortcuts - then complain loudly why it is possible for them to play this way. I agree though that Firaxis should plomb as many well known Civ HP-cheats as possible.

	06-09-2001 23:53									#11
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30 working resources! (Sounds like Korn469 again) This is excellent!

Ralf:

How about only allowing play to continue from an Autosave file, which might prevent map peaking. And allowing only one reload per Autosave file to prevent reloading on bad huts or bad combat results? You could still play with different savefiles or more reloads, but you get an asterix on your game score.

	07-09-2001 00:24									#12
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yay

Well, now it's going to be a lot harder to catch every wonder. Sounds like an improvement to me... Might actually add some challenge to the game. They're curtailing ICS, but now it seems that OCC will be much tougher than before, since you may not have the resources to build, say, Colossus, or Isaac Newton's College... any takers for a Civ III OCC game? Anyone?

And if the AI has been improved to the point that it doesn't need to cheat anymore... Shall I subject it to the Turing Test?

Or am I being way too optimistic?*

* Yes.

	07-09-2001 00:27									#13
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Does anyone know exactly how the leader units are going to help build Wonders? Do they help build at a more rapid pace, or do you have to sacrifice the leader or what?

	07-09-2001 00:29									#14
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I think that changes like these will improve the game very mush. The more I read, the more I want the game (So stop reading until you can get the game. I can't!)

	07-09-2001 00:34									#15
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I keep seeing references to OCC and I asked a while ago what it was - one city challenge. How are you supposed to win with only one city? Could someone give me an idea/strats or even a link to how this is possible. I don't get it.

	07-09-2001 00:40									#16
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Pembleton:

http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occ.htm

Search the Civ II Strategy Forum for threads pertaining to OCC.

Last edited by Vlad Antlerkov on 07-09-2001 at 00:47

	07-09-2001 00:46									#17
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider "...the 30 resources with whom you can build the old or the new wonders used in Civ III. "

I believe this is an misunderstanding. If wonders requires recources, then why not city-improvements as well? With wonders & city-improvements you only need the knowledge; the workforce and common building-material (= shields), 98% of the time. Why messing it up with an enforced need of resources? What should "Hanging Gardens" need, for example? Green plants?

Unless officially confirmed, I dont believe it. From what we know, that german commentator could simply have taken for granted that everything need recources - not just combat-units.

	07-09-2001 01:00									#18
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OCC should be called OCE or OCL for one city exploit or one city loophole as it uses "tricks". It seems that a simple patch could prevent such things as the incremental rush-buying or WLTC day. The increase of one pop for WLTC is too much and there should be a different bonus.

Anyway, I guess some people get a kick out of doing this but it doesn't seem very fun to me. I play Civ to create a civ, not just one city.

	07-09-2001 01:15									#19
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Resources sound better with each new bit of news. I just hope the AI knows to use them.

quote: And if the AI has been improved to the point that it doesn't need to cheat anymore... Shall I subject it to the Turing Test?

Not a bad idea. Way to do this would be with a multiplayer game that includes human and AI players. Human players only use set responses (no in game chat). See if human players can guess which civs were human controlled and which were AI controlled. Might assign this sort of project to my class next semester if the AI impresses me. Think Firaxis will give me a desk copy?

	07-09-2001 01:17									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Zanzin This is definately a good thing - makes the wonders race all that more interesting, and not so *easy*

In civ-3 you cannot prepare one and the same wonder in several of your own cities anymore. A common Civ-2/SMAC cheat, that made it very easy to prepare shield-material - then change wonder-priority as soon as the new wonder-allowing tech was explored.

I think above alone makes the wonder-race more interesting.

	07-09-2001 01:22									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Ralf I believe this is an misunderstanding. If wonders requires recources, then why not city-improvements as well?

To quote Soren Johnson, Firaxis (http://www.civ3.com/devupdate_resources.cfm): 'Resources, like iron, oil, and uranium, allow the construction of specific units and buildings.'

	07-09-2001 01:28									#22
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quote: Originally posted by lockstep To quote Soren Johnson, Firaxis (http://www.civ3.com/devupdate_resources.cfm): 'Resources, like iron, oil, and uranium, allow the construction of specific units and buildings.'

Holy ****! Thats an old quote and I completely missed it. Well, well, well...

	07-09-2001 02:25									#23
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This new info has been nothing but great to the game.
Now you strategically have to promote a civilized coexistance with other civs so you can trade and get resources to build units, buildings and Wonders (although I assume basic buildings such as temples, marketplaces or libraries can be built with fairly accessible resources). It's funnier to play this way, and far more realistic. Great job, Firaxis. Now how about renaming the "Rider"? You've accepted fan ideias before (advanced airstrikes targeting specific enemy buildings :b, so how about it?. I believe the unit is historically fairly well chosen, it's exciting, reminiscent of the notorious Mongol hordes, now just make it sound chinese!

	07-09-2001 03:01									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Pembleton OCC should be called OCE or OCL for one city exploit or one city loophole as it uses "tricks". It seems that a simple patch could prevent such things as the incremental rush-buying or WLTC day. The increase of one pop for WLTC is too much and there should be a different bonus.

How in the world is just building one city exploiting a loophole?

	07-09-2001 03:12									#25
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quote: . If wonders requires recources, then why not city-improvements as well?

Even though, this is a bit too late I'll say it anyways. When the new civ3 site opened I started a thread based on that single quote proving the requirement of resources for city improvements. I thought I would say that.

It's nice to see that wonders also require resources for building.

	07-09-2001 03:29									#26
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Civ1:
Civ2:
Civ3:

	07-09-2001 03:42									#27
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It came up in a recent thread that the 'Ironworks' wonder needs coal & iron (too lazy to find it) and it makes sense that an oil refinery needs oil (hang on CTP improvement?).

	08-09-2001 00:41									#28
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quote: posted by monkspider Good news Ranger, the AI doesn't cheat at all, save Deity level. Check the Finnish article thread for more info.

Could you provide a quote from or link to that article? No AI cheating on low levels? What distinguishes the levels? At least Deity provides some hope for single player challenge.

	08-09-2001 23:37									#29
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So you suppose this means I'm going to have to find some uranium for the Manhatten Project?

	09-09-2001 02:38									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar So you suppose this means I'm going to have to find some uranium for the Manhatten Project?

Most likely: Yes. But there might be a bug, so that you need horses