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yin26
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This space reserved for Darkstar.
Apr 1999
time: 14:15
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I have seen and am watching the x-pack thread with interest. But I would like to put a spin on the discussion: "On Second Thought..." Civs. These are civs that you probably never would have considered interesting enough for Civ 3 (or ever heard of, for that matter) but once you learned more about them made you say: "On second thought, that WOULD be kind of cool."
My reasoning: I would absolutely LOVE to fire up the x-pack and be behind the wheel of a civ and a location on a map that is totally foreign to me. I want to have to study the small advantages I have (if any) and really take on the big boys. Think of it this way: When you play as the Chinese, you are SUPPOSED to kick some arse. But playing as Ireland and having to work and work and work just to stay alive could, in the end, leave you feeling a lot more accomplished come the end of the game!
I realize this would be leaving out some 'big names' for the x-pack, but it would add SO much to the overall Civ experience in my opinion.
Some Ground Rules (if I can set any, of course):
1) Please let's not detract from the civs discussed, though asking for good research is assumed. Let's really try to find the coolest thing about each civ and ask: Could that be made fun to play in Civ 3?
2) Again, forget the "Bigger is Better" argument for a moment and think about civs that would present a cool challenge in Civ 3 and bring to light some amazing history that we probably would all have overlooked or never been taught otherwise.
Some suggested civs:
** Korea (you have my thread for that, so I'll leave that alone for now)
** Ireland
** Scottland
** Malta
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Ribannah
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The Netherlands, Embassy of the Iroquois Confederacy
Aug 2000
time: 06:15
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Just a random list of some "minor" civilizations to get you started:
Afghans, Australians, Batavians, Cherokees, Comanches, Frysians, Genoese, Goths, Helvetians, Hospitallers, Huns, Jutes, Normans, Nubians, Papuas, Parthians, Saracenes, Saxons, Tatars, Templars, Venetians ....to be continued
Last edited by Ribannah on 08-09-2001 at 19:34
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Gangerolf
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huuhh
May 2001
time: 06:15
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The Sami (Lapps) 
They live scattered across northern Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia, an area which they call Sápmi. Traditonally many of them are reindeer nomads. They number about 50000-75000. The word "tundra" comes from the Sami language (there are several Sami languages though).
Leader: ??
Capitol: Karasjohka (Karasjok), location of the Sami parliament.
UU: ?? reindeer-something. (moves extra fast on tundra and glaciers)
Abilities: Religious (shaman culture) and Commercial (fur-trading)
 Attachment: samegubb.gif
This has been downloaded 216 time(s).
Last edited by Gangerolf on 08-09-2001 at 05:31
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Buck Birdseed
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Khoon Ki Pyasi Dayan (1988)
Nov 2000
time: 05:15
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Nice idea! To my mind, there are only three or four of this type of "unimportant but totally unique" civs already in the game, and of those only the Zulus have really captured my interest when reading history books.
My pick: The Swahili/Kilwans
- Unique in that it consists of blended elements from three distinct cultures, combining Shirzi/Persian, Bantu/African and Arab elements.
- Ruled by a Black nobility, with the Persians and Arabs as a middle class. The language (Kiswahili) is largely a Bantu one with certain Persian and Arab elements.
- Extremely trade-oriented- worked as a link between the Near East (and occasionally Far East) and inland africa.
- Very focussed on the central city state in each kingdom. The main one (strategically significant Kilwa) vassalised other major ones like Lamu (today in Kenya) and Sofala in Mozambique. However, lesser independent trade centres were located as far north as Mogadishu, which was in fact the second most dominant one.
- The Kilwan kingdom extended from today's Kenya-Tanzania border via Zanzibar to Mafia Island, but was almost entirely coastal. It only had coastal cities and trade posts, almost no in-land contact.
- Have you heard the legend of King Solomon's Mines (Also depicted in The World of Jules Verne scenario in Fantastic Worlds)? The "garden city" of Kilwa was the origin of this myth, because of its rumoured fabulous wealth.
Leader: Sultan Souleiman Ibn Mohammed el Malik el Adil
Capital: Kilwa Kiswani
Other major cities: Mogadishu, Sofala, Mombasa, Lamu, Zanzibar, Kilwa Masoko, Pato...
Unique Units: Dhow. A Galley but with more movement and cheaper to build.
Attributes: Commercial/Expansionist.
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Saint Marcus
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Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:15
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MALTA
Special Unit: Hospitalier Knight, Crossbow, Revolting Peasant
Special structure: Coastal Fortress
Special trade commodity: Maltese Silk, Maltese Silver
Capital: Mdina or Valetta
Civ abilities: Commercial and Religious
Special ability: extra partisans when a city is forcibly taken, increased chance of a revolt when a city is forcibly taken. People are never assimilated in another culture.
History: early temples and statues found, dating back to 3000 BC. Later colonised by the Phoenicians who made it an important trade centre. Then colonised by the Greeks and Carthagians after that. Conquered by the Romans in the Punic Wars. Mdina (which was called differently by the Romans) made capital. The island became an important trading centre once again. (first Golden Age) The apostle Paul shipwrecked on the island and performed several miracles there. The people of Malta converted to Christianity. It become the property of the Byzantine Empire when the Roman Empire was split in two. It was later conquered by the Arabs, who formally named the capital Mdina. The Arabs improved it's defenses, build a mosque, and modernised the island as a whole. They were greatly impressed by the Maltese people, who were labeled as "strong, honest and hardworking"(second Golden Age). Then the Normans conquered it from the Arabs. The legend has it that the Normans gave a cornor of the their flag to the Maltese as a token of appreciation and friendship. The Tuscani (I believe) got hold of the island after them, and the island was given to the Hospitaliers (Knights of St.John) by the Pope. The big mosque was converted in a cathedral and the Hospitaliers further modernised the island, and build schools and hospitals in various cities. Then in the 1560s the Ottomans launched a massive attack to wipe the Knights out once and for all. It seemed an unfair fight for sure. The Ottomans sent most of their fleet and best units, plus they had cannons and muskets, while the Maltese relied on Crossbows. This battle was known as the Great Siege of Malta. In the end, against all odds, the Maltese people and the Knights of St.John defeated the might of the Ottomans. After this major battle the Hospitaliers improved the defenses of Malta significantly, making it the best defended stronghold in the Mediterenean Sea. Valetta, where a massive coastal fortress was build, became the island's capital. (third Golden Age). However, the Knights lost their way and become decadent under their wealth. When the French under Napoleon invaded they didn't have to fire a single shot. But eventhough the Knights surrendered, the people of Malta did not. They kept resisting the French invaders and in the end removed them from every corner of the island, with the sole exception of Valetta, where the French troops where pretty much trapped. When the English came to the rescue they didn't had to do much to capture the remaining french garizons. In the following decades, the English made Malta a modern nation. Then World War 2 came. Malta resisted both Italian and German attacks on the island with incredible strenght of will, and ensured an allied victory in north Africa. After the war, Eisenhower awarded the Maltese people with the Iron Cross of bravery, for their heroic stand in WW2 against all odds. In the 1960s the English granted them independence.
Characteristics of the Maltese, summary: Pascifists. They rarely fight and usually welcome invading countries. However, they will never change their culture or way of life (not a single maltese citizen converted to the islam under arab rule, which astounded the arabs). The only time they will fight is if their culture is at stake. If a foreign power wants to change the Maltese way of life, the people will revolt with incredible strenght and will. (Ottomans, French, Germans/Italians). No matter, how much you hurt them, they will never give in. Not even if under the threath of extinction. The Maltese people will do anything to preserve their culture, and that explains the seeming paradox between the pascifists and the revolting citizens. If a foreign power comes along who is willing to leave the Maltese culture in tact (Phoenicians, Greek, Carthagians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Normans, Tuscani, Hospitaliers, English) then the people welcome the invaders with open arms. But if a foreign power moves in who wants to change the Maltese culture (Ottomans, Germans, Italians), the people will resist to the last man, woman and child.
Anything else you'd like to know? Feel free to ask.
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Brent
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Hittites, Mitannites, Trojans, Elamites, Ephraimites, Ammonites, Arameans, Moabites, Philistines, Phoenicians, Cimmerians, Scythians, Thracians, Basques, Galileans, Armenians, Azerbaijani, Georgians, Missourians, Mormons, Cheyenne, Maidu, Mohicans, Powhatan, Arawak, Aymara, Carib, Toltec, Tupi, Guarani, Swiss, Portugese, Lapps, Finnish, Estonians, Yakuts, Kashmir, Hmong, Aborigines, Tongans, Samoans, Hawaiians, Maori, Athapascans, Aleuts, Caledonii, Brigantes, Trinovantes, Dal Riata, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Goths, Vatican City, Malagasy, Berbers, Boers, Bushmen, Inuit, Hopewell, Texans, Confederates, Cubans
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aaglo
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the contradiction is filled with holes...
Aug 2001
time: 07:15
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Wellwellwell...
At first I have to apologise my lack of knowledge on every f***ing tiny detail on the history of human race. I'm a bit afraid of posting anything in these forums, cause there is always somebody, who gets all excited about the fact, that "actually the Seoul is only the fifth largest city in the world, you freaking freak!" (like it makes the difference). So here goes, if you are absolutely freaked out about what is coming, feel free to beat the crap out of me. It won't hurt, won't it?
I have an idea for a special civ for possible xpansion, but at first I have to ask a question about terrain types. What are there? If tundra, conifer forests, fells (check your dictionary, I'm not going to explain), or some other terrain type for cold regions is included, then OK! Enter, the...
Finns
Special unit: Snow soldier (during winter war against Soviet Union 30.11.1939-13.3.1940). What's so special about it? In temperate areas the unit is no different compared to a regular soldier (a conscript?). But when the unit is in cold region...  movement increases 100%, defence (not in city) increases 75% and offense increases 50% (the percentages surely need tweaking).
Movement +100%: never heard of skis? Ok, you might think that anybody can buy skis and train a few elite units to perform flipflops with skis on and simultaneously empty a clip into an enemy group. But during winter war every single finnish soldier could use the skis, and I mean EVERYBODY (well, maybe not ten persons or so), but you get the point. Thus the added movement.
Defence +75% (not in city square, because it would be almost impossible to conquer, I think): Reflects the ability to use snow as a camouflage, stealth and protection. Yes, even from bullets. IIRC about 2 meters of dense snow will stop a 7,62 ammo.
Offense +50%: Again the skis. And it also reflects the the defenders inability to carry out a proper defence due to possible inconvinience caused by improper equipment against cold and snow. It also reflects the element of surprise. I've heard stories about the russian soldiers being scared of the finnish "silent and quick skiing soldiers who come in the dead of the night to our camps, killing everybody around the campfire. It is impossible to fire back, because nobody knows where the bullets are coming from." There is a saying (I don't know the origin of it, propably the winter war) which says:"one finn equals ten russians." 
Golden age trigger: The best that I can come up with is victory with the special unit, in the special conditions (fight in cold region). IRL that sure didn't trigger any golden age - on the contrary, another war came  . But I can't figure any other trigger (Nokia-mobiles are no trigger, they are the explosion).
Commercial ability: Finland makes and always has made a living out of forests. Between 1500-1800 Finland region was one of the major producers of tar. Tar was used to protect wooden ships from moisture, fungus and rottening effects of water. Finnish tar was delivered (IIRC) to the navies of England, Holland, Sweden and maybe Denmark and France. Nowadays the main exports are paper, machinery and ships. The tourism is becoming more and more important commercial branch (especially in Lapland). And there are also those Nokia-mobiles :P .
Religious ability: the Swedes made us protestants, and that is what we are good at . We have a saying (origin unknown, you may have it too) "fear of the Lord is the origin of wisdom". (what a clumsy translation!)
Why commercial and religious? In my opinion no other comply. Well maybe scientific, but I'm too modest. And as being a science engineer, I'd rather not choose scientific ability. It's pretty boring. But when I really start to think of it, Finland is one of the leading nations in the studies of cold technology (boy, those finns can really freeze their food  )
Other specials: reduced growth (there aren't very much of us), high tax rates (which leads to free schools, colleges, universities, health care and constant promises of "lower taxes" ) and some political balancing skills (during the cold war Finland was trying to handle properly the good relations between east and west). I know there are some others, which don't come across my mind.
I really don't know what kind of modifications these would require, but there are professionals to do things like that. Or are there...
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Inverse Icarus
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flying too low to the ground
May 2001
time: 00:15
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OH OH OH. THE PALENSTIANS.
CSU: F*CKING COWARDLY HIJACKERS THAT GO INTO A CITY THAT ACCEPTS ALL PEOPLE INDISCRIMINATELY, LIVE THERE FOR SEVERAL YEARS AS A CITIZEN AND ON COMMAND HIJACK A PLANE, AND ONLY KILL CIVILLIANS NOT MILITARY UNITS.
Last edited by Inverse Icarus on 12-09-2001 at 02:40
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Adm.Naismith
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Milano - Italy
Oct 1999
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by UberKruX
OH OH OH. THE PALENSTIANS.
CSU: F*CKING COWARDLY HIJACKERS THAT GO INTO A CITY THAT ACCEPTS ALL PEOPLE INDISCRIMINATELY, LIVE THERE FOR SEVERAL YEARS AS A CITIZEN AND ON COMMAND HIJACK A PLANE, AND ONLY KILL CIVILLIANS NOT MILITARY UNITS. |
Great! You have already investigated and discover proper trial, out of a bunch of stupid citizen that burn a flag every other day, so come on: go to FBI a give them your great work, but please, don't let us stop you posting here at this forum.
Leave us alone! 
"Hang him up and then let him have a regular process", where not the words I can tolerate, also if my relatives would been died in the attack.
I would be sure, double checked, to have discovered the real killers, not to kill someone just to feel me better. 
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jsw363
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quote:
Originally posted by fred
YOU ARE PARANOID, stupid, ignorant, racist and more dangerous then a rampid shark in a kiddie pool. You let one statement move your hatred against a whole innocent population. You are now the same terrorist, no different. Think then act, do not let; do not kill innocent people just because they look and sound and share the religion of the people that crashed the planes. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE. |
I agree completely.
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Dimorier Maximus
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of Apolyton
May 2001
time: 05:15
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The Texans
Leader: Sam Houston or Stephen F. Austin
Capital: Austin
Unique Unit: Texas Ranger (an improved calvary)
History: Texas won its independence from Mexico in 1836 and was an independent nation from then until 1845 when it became a state in the U.S. While it was independent, it was populated heavily by former Mexican, German, and U.S. citizens.
Other city names:
Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, El Paso, Fort Worth, Arlington, Lubbock, Amarillo, Corpus Christi, Brownsville, Fredericksburg, San Angelo, Albuquerque, Santa Fe (Yes those were in Texas before they ceded land to the U.S. when they joined the Union)
Texas would be a commercial and industrious civilization: industrious because they worked hard to gain their independence - "Remember the Alamo" and commercial because of the cattle trade which was very important in the time of independent Texas.
Extra tidbit:
The Texas Rangers were nearly always outnumbered by the Apaches, Comanches, and other Indian tribes they fought. But they always seemed to win anyways. Maybe it was because of their six-shooters (revolvers), or maybe God was just blessing them. Either way, the six-shooters didn't hurt their chances for winning.
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Inverse Icarus
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flying too low to the ground
May 2001
time: 00:15
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the terrorists didn't care WHO they we're bombing.
many of those people could care less about Isreal / Islamic Tensions.
but the terrorists made no judgements. they killed them all, including my dad.
and now we have to go and fight the terrorists, not a nation, a group of fundamentalists being protected by a government.
and the second we step in everyone is going to say "there's the US, bullying people again." just because we want to punish those who did this.
my friend is currently on a trip to Greece, and he said that the a lot of the people there said "it was a tragedy, but America deserved it".
WHAT THE HELL IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?
i never overgeneralized, i never said kill all muslims, and i never used an ethnic slur.
i called them f*cking cowardly idiots who hit civilians, parents, brothers.
and whats wrong with FOX news? they are a reliable nation-wide news channel.
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Apolyton Time is 00:15. |
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07-09-2001 17:06
. Oh, Denmark has the oldest flag still in use...
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