08-09-2001 04:06									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

O.K., this has to be said: If Firaxis couldn't figure out the need for a peaceful GA on its own, we are in BIG trouble.

	08-09-2001 04:14									#32
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well they've been in beta for a while now, and no new features are added during beta... If the peaceful golden age wasn't in before they entered beta then they would have had to have drop out of beta to add it, thus delaying their release date (something neither they nor their publishers would want)... Therefore it can be assumed that the peaceful golden age has been in for some time and most likely they thought it up themselves.

	08-09-2001 04:33									#33
	Remove this text

Is it just me or is it possible that this Yin fella has nothing to say other than negative thoughts about the game?

Anyway, about GAs, I think that militaristic/expansionist/... civs should be able to trigger it through combat, while industrious/scientific/... should be able to achieve it through peaceful means. I'm not sure where a mil/ind civ would fit in, though.

	08-09-2001 04:50									#34
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by PGM Is it just me or is it possible that this Yin fella has nothing to say other than negative thoughts about the game?

Yin has been one of the most (if not the most) influential important people in regards to Civ III on these boards. He headed up the List v1 and 2 which were long idea lists that Brian Renyolds said would be useful in developement (this was a long time ago before BR left for Big Huge Games).

He was the mod of the Civ 3 forums when I first came on the scene and he and Midknight Lament tought me the ropes around here. So yin has become pessimistic as of late but he has reason - little fan interation and some other things.

If you want to read some more of his opinions and let him set the record straight himself read the Faces of Apolyton 4 at http://apolyton.net/misc/interviews/foa_4yin.shtml

	08-09-2001 05:05									#35
	Suffering from ads?

Well I don't mean to be disrespectful, so there's no need to start plotting a forum embargo against me. But for a few posts I've been reading in the last weeks, I'd say he's having a tough Summer. Peace! Let's keep discussing important issues.
All that said, I'll close begging Firaxis, by God rename that damn "Riderrrrrrr"!

	08-09-2001 05:39									#36
	Increase Your PM Length

Yes, yin used to be important around here, but that was before he become a self-important village idiot. <--see, that was a smily thing

I think folks keep forgetting how customizable Civ3 will be. By the first weekend, there will be alot of threads on tweaking/changing something and that's all fine. A game that is highly customizable can be more things to more people (except for yin who said he's not playing Civ3, he'll just stick around to bray) <-- that's another smily thing.

	08-09-2001 05:53									#37
	Put an end to popups!

tniem: Thanks.
Steve: Thanks. ( )

I honestly think that it was the discussion here that has brought about the peaceful GA. While my first thought when GA's were first revealed was, "Hey, that's silly just to have GA for something like that," and while I'm quite happy to see that we have apparently been listened to:

Civ3 with live and die by how well it is balanced. So far, some concerns:

** Things potentially as influential as GAs are still being radically fiddled with a few weeks before the game goes gold.

** Civ attributes are being fiddled with weeks before the game goes gold.

** There will be no demo. (!!!???)

** MP may well come out many months from now and we might have to pay for it. (!!!???)

Now, I realize that all games get tweaked even the minute before the master is sent to duplication (and thus some horrid bugs 'strangely' get left in as well), those things above indicate to me an overall pattern:

Firaxis is pressed for time and has yet to feel really satisified with this entire unique civ concept so is still trying out stuff as we speak. And not releasing a demo only further argues 1) lack of time and 2) lack of confidence in the game balance.

Yes, the customizing could rectify many, many problems. But out of the box, I predict BIG problems. Thus, IF I decide to buy Civ3, it will only be once its price has dropped significantly in March or May and once MP, modding and the first significant patches are in place.

I have been an unpaid beta tester too many times, thank you.

	08-09-2001 06:13									#38
	Got spare money?

I don't see customizing rectifying many, many problems; I see it as making the game what you want it to be (however you define it). What you might consider a problem, I might consider it a great thing so instead of having Civ3 going down a narrow (or revolutionary) path, it appears it will go down a very wide path. You would take the left side and I would add a new path down the right. For example, some may like the Pimple Mountains, I won't, so I'll look to replace them as soon as possible. Another example, while many will look to having historically-accurate, balanced civs, I don't; I look for civs to be challenging to play against (i.e., more aggressive). Does that mean that the current attributes are right or wrong? Not at all, it's just one of hundreds of possible permutations and one that I will look at changing to match my style of play. Yes, I expect the game to be playable out of the box, but I expect to be so customizable that I can create and play very different games and scenarios for years.

Steve
The Proverbial Thorn in Yin's Side

	08-09-2001 15:47									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Rhysie Well they've been in beta for a while now, and no new features are added during beta... If the peaceful golden age wasn't in before they entered beta then they would have had to have drop out of beta to add it, thus delaying their release date (something neither they nor their publishers would want)... Therefore it can be assumed that the peaceful golden age has been in for some time and most likely they thought it up themselves.

IMO, the fact that Firaxis has changed the Chinese special abilities so that they match the Great Wall´s abilities is an indication that the peaceful golden age trigger was added after the last-but-one developer update - and this was only two weeks before Civ3 hit beta.

	08-09-2001 16:12									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So what do Golden Ages do?

	08-09-2001 16:26									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

First, there's NO WAY that the Art of War and Hoover Dam are Great Wonders. The Fireaxis interview mentions them as wonders, that's it. If there are only 12 wonders in the game I find it EXTREMELY unlikely that Fireaxis would choose these two to fall into that catergory. So.... small wonders can also trigger golden ages.

I don't know that this has been clarified, but it seems to me that a civ can have multiple GAs. (one after a wonder, another after their UU wins, etc.) I don't think that it's a one time only thing. Why provide so many ways to have a GA, but then only allow one? It doesn't make sense since they know people would hold off on their one GA until they were in an advantageous position.

	08-09-2001 16:46									#42
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by jsw363 First, there's NO WAY that the Art of War and Hoover Dam are Great Wonders. The Fireaxis interview mentions them as wonders, that's it. If there are only 12 wonders in the game I find it EXTREMELY unlikely that Fireaxis would choose these two to fall into that catergory. So.... small wonders can also trigger golden ages.

Why do people keep arguing this? These two wonders are specifically mentioned as _great_ wonders, the developers update is talking only about great wonders, it doesn't say 'wonders', it says 'great wonders'...