08-09-2001 11:51									#1
	Infogrames rolled over Sid will they do it to Alan? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

(First of all a disclaimer: If the rumors on the Civ3 board turn out to be true than I apologize in advance to Firaxis and to Infogrames).


It appears that Firaxis is going to release Civ III this October without MP capabilities. The game appears not to be ready but Infogrames wants the game yesterday. They don't care one bit if it is not ready - they want quick money. And so they told Sid hey we had a deal, give us the game by the end of October or else. So Sid had to cut MP.

Now why does this have to do with MOO3?

Because both Civ III and MOO3 are being released by the same publisher - Infogrames.


So you have Sid, one of the biggest legends in the gaming industry and he is being told we want this game whether its ready or not. So Civ III is coming out uncompleted.

What about MOO3? Alan Emerich does not have the same name recognition. He is a strategy game guide writer. This is his first (as far as I know) head of a gaming project. What chance does Alan Emerich have of getting any delays?

If Sid isn't a big of enough name than I doubt Alan is. It just doesn't resonate. So what are the chances that MOO3 also comes out uncomplete? Will Infogrames kill two of the most highly awaited strategy games in a number of years? Stormhound, can you reassure me that Alan will not give a gold copy until he is satisfied? Or am I doomed to two huge disappointments because some company doesn't know what its doing?

	10-09-2001 00:28									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

While this isn't Alan's first head-of-project (I believe he was a producer at Interplay for a while, plus his name is on a board wargame), I'm afraid that when it comes to the business/legal end of things, I can make no promises. Infogrames has a contract with QS, and the extent to which they choose to (or need to) enforce or relax its provisions is up to them. We're doing everything we can to get this title in on time and on budget, and there are a lot of people busting their collective butts toward that end. Nobody at QS wants to deliver a subpar game.

If you're at all concerned about this, your best course of action is to write Infogrames directly, because it's their property. You can find contact information at www.infogrames.com (and likely elsewhere as well). I'd say the chances of them reading it here are slim and none, so put your words where they'll do the most good.

	10-09-2001 03:48									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Stormhound you are an assest to your company. Thanks for the post.

Sure it told me exactly what I expected that Infogrames can screw over whatever games they want to but the important thing was that you told us that. Sure it was diplomatically but you also reassured me that you are working hard on it.

Thanks, I think I will write Infogrames. And best of luck in the coming weeks.

	11-09-2001 08:48									#4
	Got spare money?

Thanks for the info, Stormhound.

Tniem: Would you like to start a new thread here for writing to Infogrames? I will write a letter myself. I think we should have a brief model for people to follow. Postive and to the point. Something like:

"Dear Infogrames:

FR: MOO3 fan
RE: Please don't rush MOO3!

While I think Civ 3 under Sid Meier's name can weather many potential storms that might come from not having a demo, allowing only 8 civs in one game, no MP, etc., I truly believe that MOO3 must be a quality release out of the box or it might lose its window of opportunity.

As a long-time fan of the MOO series, I think the current design philosophy of MOO3 is outstanding and may well re-invent the genre. Please listen to the QS team and allow them a few extra months if they make a good case for it.

Yours Sincerely,

MOO3 Fan"

	11-09-2001 08:57									#5
	Got spare money?

I have sent my letter to the following e-mail. Stormhound, if you know of a better place to mail, please let us know. Thanks.

Feedback@us.infogrames.com

	11-09-2001 20:31									#6
	Got spare money?

Yes, and my apologies for not digging it out earlier. Here's OUR contact at Infogrames:

CHantzopoulos@us.infogrames.com
Constantine is the man who's in charge of our project from their end, and he's a very nice guy. PLEASE do not send him hate mail, PLEASE make all letters as reasoned and polite as you can, or you may hurt your case more than help it.

	14-09-2001 19:53									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yes, thanks for the openness with regard to MoO3.

I really feel for the developers - all that hard work - only to have their game rushed. It must be discouraging, since an unfinished game will, unfairly, be seen as a reflection of their work.

Great work Yin - publishers need to know that there are people who care about the product they release.

Gee, with Infogrames rushing both Civ3 and MoO3, I wonder if their stock will rise? Now I know why it fell in the first place. . .

Last edited by Leonidas on 14-09-2001 at 20:00

	16-09-2001 01:28									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

yin26, any reply to your letter ? Please let us know if they answer...

	16-09-2001 09:37									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Stormhound!

This behavior is completely unsat. We had a deal that you guys would supply a game at a certain time. It's not our fault that your guys goofed off and got behind. We are going to teach you a lesson and hold you to your agreement. You best produce the best game you can or no more publishing deals. Now stop surfing Apolyton and get to work.

Oh and what is this about stirring up all the fans to write the big bossman. Whose side are you on anyway. Do we need to remind you who's funding this project? Now get in my office!!

------------------

Seriously folks. Why are the game developers always behind schedule (at the end). I think the publishers need to enforce some project discipline on these guys.

	16-09-2001 10:33									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: yin26, any reply to your letter ? Please let us know if they answer...

So far just the automated response: "Thank you for your letter. We get so many that we might not respond, etc."

	16-04-2002 00:27									#11
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Stormhound Yes, and my apologies for not digging it out earlier. Here's OUR contact at Infogrames: CHantzopoulos@us.infogrames.com Constantine is the man who's in charge of our project from their end, and he's a very nice guy. PLEASE do not send him hate mail, PLEASE make all letters as reasoned and polite as you can, or you may hurt your case more than help it.

So is this the place to send "electronic talcum powder letters"?

(Just kidding, Markos. I don't take this stuff too seriously...it is all fun and games about games to me!)

	16-04-2002 00:45									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by GP Stormhound! This behavior is completely unsat. We had a deal that you guys would supply a game at a certain time. It's not our fault that your guys goofed off and got behind. We are going to teach you a lesson and hold you to your agreement. You best produce the best game you can or no more publishing deals. Now stop surfing Apolyton and get to work. Oh and what is this about stirring up all the fans to write the big bossman. Whose side are you on anyway. Do we need to remind you who's funding this project? Now get in my office!! ------------------ Seriously folks. Why are the game developers always behind schedule (at the end). I think the publishers need to enforce some project discipline on these guys.

told ya so...

	16-04-2002 07:35									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by GP Seriously folks. Why are the game developers always behind schedule (at the end). I think the publishers need to enforce some project discipline on these guys.

Not really, most of the time the developers know full well how long things are going to take to build, but managers and higher ups always have a different view on things. That is where the real problems arise.. As for civ3 comparisons to moo.. I'd have to say civ 3 has got to be one of the most buggy games i have ever played.. Then again every product from firixas is buggy.. Quick silvers games have been pretty good and i would expect the same from moo 3.

	16-04-2002 10:47									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Don't forget that QS is paying for delayed MOO3, not Infogrames.

That's the differnce between Civ3 & MOO3.
Firaxis didn't won't to fund deley to make game complete, so thtey rushed and cut some things like MP & editor.

But QS wants that to make game complete.
Unfortunately, that decision NEEDS some sacrifices.

	16-04-2002 12:13									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

bottom line...poor program management from QS.

	17-04-2002 09:43									#16
	Re: Infogrames rolled over Sid will they do it to Alan? Inflate your Upload Space

They just did.

	28-04-2002 21:09									#17
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by GP bottom line...poor program management from QS.

The overwhelming majority of software projects are late and over budget. A large number of them were abandoned somewhere along the line.

It is very hard to say who's right and who's wrong. It depends on what sort of projects it is, culprits can include the marketing department, the client, the project manager, the programmers, and a combination of these.

	30-04-2002 00:52									#18
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger It is very hard to say who's right and who's wrong. It depends on what sort of projects it is, culprits can include the marketing department, the client, the project manager, the programmers, and a combination of these.

There is something in what you say. Still: Changing the Captain in the midst of a storm I can´t imagine to be a good idea! My hunch is, managers without a clue will now make random adjustments, resulting in a horrible game without head or tail.