13-06-2000 19:36									#1
	Why is Civ II so liked? Inflate your Upload Space

I just purchased Civ II Gold and have not played Civ in any flavor as of yet. I've come from a Warlords/AoE world and just can't seem to get into Civ II though it seems that everyone else in the world can. Maybe answers to a few questions can help me out...

I am finding it to be very slow going, especially early in the game. Any Barbarians I encounter seem to move more or less randomly (go over the same squares over and over ) around the map and will occasionally pester me. Is this normal?

I find that AI players just tend to move randomly around my territories as well. I don't get the impression they are mapping or planning an attack. Just random movements. Is this normal?

I find that progressing through techs is confusing. I feel like I am researching things somewhat aimlessly, and the interface doesn't clearly tell me the game value of Fuedalism, though it tells me historically why it was important. Am I messing something up here?

I'm playing on King level and find it pretty easy to be ranked as the top cities. I find that I can create wonders faster than my opponents. I've just started playing this title and am surprised that I find it this easy? Is it that I will be challenged later in the game?

The graphics are very dated. Has anyone tried the graphics patch I've seen here? Is it worth it?

I know I am a newbie, and I really want to like the game, but I find that I spend an hour working on it and I'm not even remotely challenged.

Am I nuts? (Ok, I opened the door there..)

Cheese

	13-06-2000 19:49									#2
	Got spare money?

You have raised some good questions and I hope others can provide their opinions. For now, I can only make these comments. For gamers that have been playing the latest generations of RTS games (AoE, Warcraft, etc.), as well as console games, TBS (turn-based) games like Civ2 would seem anachronistic. Civ2 came out in 1996(?) and it was an enhancement of Civ1 which was developed in 1992(?). Many of us here come from playing strategy and war games since the 1980s, which had all been TBS or some variation of that. I, for one, never played console games (I hate them) so I view RTS as nothing more than a video game that gets boring after a while. So I think a quick answer lies in what type of games have you grown up with or what types are you used to.

	13-06-2000 22:10									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Keep playing to the end.There is along way to go and much to discover.

Too easy,bump up the difficulty level.

Still too easy?Try winning only ever having 1 city.

Still?-try the scenario Red Front.

Try MP.First few games will be humbling.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited June 13, 2000).]

	13-06-2000 22:53									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yeah... beating the computer is no problem.
Try winning against humans. Give it a try and report back to us how easy the game is

	13-06-2000 23:00									#5
	Suffering from ads?

Great Ming has spoken.

Grr. One time he banned me, be careful with him, Cheese! He feels insulted easily, and the consequences for you can be terrible.

	13-06-2000 23:30									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

"He feels insulted easily"? HA HA HA HA!

If that was the case, half the people at Apolyton would be banned

But seriously... until they produce a smarter AI for the game, the only real competition can be found by playing people who understand the game. It has raised my appreciation of this fine old game to new levels!

	14-06-2000 15:50									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

When it becomes available for some other operating system besides Linux, I will give it a try

	15-06-2000 15:01									#9
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Here here!

Freeciv has some really interesting features (looking in from the outside), but a windows-native version isn't one of them...

As for the lack of understanding thing, check out the "Civilopedia" menu, and experiment with the things you can click on, like "tree" in each of the "civilization advances", which shows you what you need to get an advance.

Also, there are a number of nice challenges out there, like:

1. OCC-One City Challenge: Land a space ship on AC, using only one city throughout the game.

2. Nomads Challenge: Never build a city, and only capture them from huts and enemies. This is particularly challenging when played at deity, raging hordes, 7 civizations, excellerated start-up...

(doubt anyone but the best could win with those settings)

Also, as many have mentioned, there's mp-play too: I can beat the ai 99% of the time or more on King, and I'm 0 wins and 13 losses in mp play, if that's any indication...

Best of Luck,
-KhanMan
(who recently tried AoE for the first time...what's all the fuss about?

	15-06-2000 16:55									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah Andz83... I knew it was a joke, and that's why I added my smile at the end...

And as far as the CivIII section goes, I decided to be useful and start the cheat thread. I just wanted to show them how we currently abuse the program, hoping they would clean up their act in the next version.
And, it is a great reference piece for current civII players.

I had a real problem going through many of the other suggestion threads too

	15-06-2000 17:15									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

cough

Ming: I wasn't referring to the cheat thread...

	15-06-2000 17:37									#13
	Support Apolyton

Hello Ming, Andz83, Khanman and all the others!

This is my first post here, and I have a question:

What does "OCC" mean?

I also like to play Civilization 2. I hope that I can learn a bit from this forums.

	15-06-2000 17:47									#15
	Remove this text

OCC stands for One City Challange.

Many of that have played for a while were looking for a new challange to keep the game interesting. Trying to win with just one city does indeed test all your skills.
And welcome aboard

And Andz83... I knew you weren't... but since I was one of those Thread Leaders, I wanted to make sure I distanced myself from the stuff you were complaining about... notice I used the smile again

	15-06-2000 17:50									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Gee Thue... you snuck that post in on me while I was answering another question

GREAT NEWS... so how do I get a copy that runs in a windows environment?
Because I like the concept, I just didn't think I would have linux in the near future...

	15-06-2000 20:18									#18
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well, I tried starting a few more games at the Deity level to get things moving and after three hours of play, I am just walking around the map, a few squares at a time, waiting for things to happen.

I've always enjoyed TBS games, but this one just seems to drag on. I suppose the graphics don't help much either, though the HiRes Mod was an improvement.

Well, thanks for all your responses!

	15-06-2000 20:43									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Cheese - Civ certainly isn't for everyone. And it is way out of date from a graphic interface standpoint, but we would probably play it without graphics at all.

If you want more action, Civ may not be for you, but I might suggest trying a well designed Civ action scenario like RedFront or Sparticus before you hang it up completely.


The AI programing was done ten years ago so it is in despirate need of a complete overhaul - which is why so many good civers either grossly handicap themselves or play against people instead of the AI.

	16-06-2000 04:19									#20
	Tired of ads?

Concerning the "it's easy to beat the AI in CivII" idea: I suppose it is easy to beat it by going after it militarily and early in the game.

May I suggest that you just let it build itself while you build your own civ. See what it does by 1000AD.

One other point; it seems to me that the AI in CivII is not designed to be aggressive. It seems to do better at development and Wonders. Give the game a chance that way. It's not going to interact while you just wander around the map, so it won't *provide* your entertainment that way. You have to do your own building to get your enjoyment from this game.

	17-06-2000 10:20									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Cavebear-I must say, it is actually easy to beat the ai with those constraints: simply play the "build a 100 cities" game, and use your cities to wall off the ai from whole continents.

Defend yourself, build lots of roads, and maintain a tech lead through trade, and AC will soon be yours.

Thule-Though I think freeciv is a great idea, until someone comes up with a way to get it on Windows without buying expensive applications to run it, that's all I can do: think about it.

-KhanMan

	18-06-2000 05:06									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

Thue: I too have stumbled onto the Freeciv site and have downloaded Andrea's version for Windows. Although I'm not altogether computer-illiterate (and I'm a great supporter of the self-help GNU concept), the installation of Freeciv is somewhat less than friendly. I've still not managed to get the client part of the program running - so any tips would be welcome. (BTW I'm already on their mailing list but with the OS's coverage you listed, the signal-to-noise ratio is somewhat low if you're only interested in Windows).

[This message has been edited by tonic (edited June 17, 2000).]

	23-06-2000 08:07									#23
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I consider myself quite the Civ veteran, though Im not that good (beaten it on king once). That, and i've lurked here for about five months now, and finally decided to throw my hat into the ring.

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i will be the power surge