10-09-2001 11:16									#1
	Being informed about wonders Inflate your Upload Space

I hope in Civ 3 that being informed about wonders being built and completed and obsolescene will be more realistic.

1. We should only be informed about a wonder being started by a civilization if we have had contact with it and only know the specific civilization that is building it if we have an embassy with it. Otherwise, it is being built without our knowledge which is more realistic.

2. We should only know who completed the wonder if we have an embassy with that civilization. Otherwise, we are simply informed that the wonder has been completed by someone but we're not told who.

3. For a wonder which is made obsolete by technology, it should only be when either ourselves or a civilization we are in contact with discovers it.
eg: The Chinese research an advance that makes a wonder we've built obsolete. However, since we have had no contact with the Chinese and don't even know of their existence, then we don't know of the advance's existence either. But as soon as we encounter the Chinese - our wonder becomes obsolete.
This may give some advantage to isolationism.

	10-09-2001 11:20									#2
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i agree with all except

quote: This may give some advantage to isolationism.

True, if you're isolationist, and you havn't discovered another civ, thus your wonder still works, HEY, it's cool that you're wonder still works, but you're also behind in technology, which doesn't seem like very much of an advantage, wonder or not.

	10-09-2001 14:56									#3
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I agree 100%, but it just ain't gonna happen.

a) You'll be notified when a wonder has been started or is about to be completed so great leaders can be utilized to build the wonder - I agree if you've had no contact with the civ who's building it, you shouldn't know about it, but I'm sure Sid will keep it as is for the "fun factor."

b) Same thing with obsolescence. Of course now with only a few Great Wonders, it's not that big of a deal anymore. The small wonders seem to keep on giving, so I don't think that's an issue.

I totally agree with #2, I was harping on that issue in another topic. If there's no embassy or knowledge of another culture, I don't want to know about em...

	10-09-2001 20:47									#4
	Put an end to popups!

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	10-09-2001 22:32									#5
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I disagree that it's unrealistic to know what other civs are up because you've never met them. Say that I, the Celts, have contact with the Americans, Mongols, Egyptians, and Greeks, but not the Babylonians. Say also that the Egyptians have contact with the Babylonians. Would it not be realistic that our folks would hear tell of a Great Project underway in Ur? "Rumour has it that construction of a Great Library is underway." Something along those lines.

Maybe this could work only by extension of one place. If I know a Civ who knows the Civ building a wonder, I hear the rumours or Wonder construction. If I know the Civ myself, I know whether these rumours are true. If I have an embassy, I know the city in which the Wonder is being built.

The "tales of travelers" help keep a sense of excitement and wonder (no pun intended) about the ancient period of the civ game.

	10-09-2001 22:44									#6
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I don't agree, sailors etc may hear rumours about remote lands which will often be true- such as the details of wonders.
If something so famous and great is being built its unlikely no one will spread the information to beyond the known world.
Travelling nomads and traders(such as gypsies/ explorers) that aren't part of your civilisation could transfer the information too.
What would be good would be to have wonder information taking a while to get to you.. so if you haven't got good radio communications etc , it will take a random 4 or 10 turns say to hear information from remote civs (especially if they aren't contacted)
Mind you, if a civilisation isn't encountered and you don't even know who they are, then its strange you can know about their wonders perhaps.

PJ

	10-09-2001 22:48									#7
	Remove this text

Finally something not about MP.
I think there could be an option to try to keep a project secret and a option to announce it.
Why would you like to announce it?
It could have some benefits for the diplomacy to do so. It would also increase the trust that other civs give in you.
Why not announce it?
Other civs may try to rush their own project, or try to stop you from finishing the project if you tell them that you work with it.
But there is still a chance that rumors will slip out, and that could hurt your reputation.

To this the diplomacy system should be extended more, to have options to tell a civ to stop build a Wonder. That could be used when a civ is building the Manhattan project, and other civs takes it as a threat they would ask that civ to abort the project. If it objects it will hurt its relations with other civs.

Now, I don't think anything of this will be implemented until Civ 4 (if not already in).

As for Civ3 I would like to see the information about other civs building wonders only on the levels up to prince.

	11-09-2001 01:09									#8
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quote: Originally posted by genghisvick Hey everyone, check out my new forum at delphi. http://forums.delphi.com/PowerUser/start

Any reason?

Just to check it out. What is there? If it is about Civ, then I am perfectly happy with ACS or is the discussion about what this one is?