10-09-2001 16:51									#1
	The Chunnel, Firaxis! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

OK, so if Firaxis have made it that the 'Great Canal' will allow the builder to connect 2 oceans on the map, why can't we have the channel tunnel as a wonder, which connects 2 land masses?

(Having the channel tunnel as a wonder would also help the 'all the modern wonders are American' problem).

Any thoughts?

	10-09-2001 18:37									#2
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absolutely - get your finger out, Firaxis!

	10-09-2001 18:59									#3
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It's too late now, but it should fit in a Civ III expansion: not only as the european tunnel under the channel, but also referring to japanese similar effort.

It's not a revolution to the game, still adding some limits should not be bad

	10-09-2001 20:37									#4
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nice idea. it should be in.

	10-09-2001 20:53									#5
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I don't like this idea anymore then I liked the idea of the canal.

	10-09-2001 21:04									#6
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I could be good, but it's to late now... But, anyway, I'm voting yes!

	10-09-2001 21:34									#7
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Does the Chunnel hold the record as the longest underwater tunnel, or does that belong to the Japanese?

Trans-Siberian railway would be a good transport wonder aswell.

	10-09-2001 21:42									#8
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I vote "yes." And I edited the Wonders part of the List, so there! Nyah!

	10-09-2001 22:13									#9
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Through modification, could something like this not be made? If you could create a water based unit that was able to support land based units like a transport boat and then fortify the units in a line from one land to another - it might work. Of course, the minor wonder would enable the unit to be built.

Now that I think about it, a unit that existed as a teleportation device would work. There would have to be two units in place in order to have a place to teleport to. This would work as a chunnel but also for a future (or extended) scenario transportation device.

	10-09-2001 23:28									#10
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How hard could it be to edit the canal wonder to make it a chunnel wonder? I love the idea, i think it should be a small wonder. is the canal a small wonder or large wonder?

	10-09-2001 23:33									#11
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower How hard could it be to edit the canal wonder to make it a chunnel wonder? I love the idea, i think it should be a small wonder. is the canal a small wonder or large wonder?

If the game is well done there should be no problem, and you will not need to make any (almost) new graphics as the tunnel is under the water.

	11-09-2001 00:59									#12
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Bravo Red-John, sometimes I think they forget there are civilisations over here in Yurop

	11-09-2001 01:08									#13
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Thankyou, loyal followers

Is it too late for Firaxis to add modern wonders? We haven't seen much of the modern age yet so I'm presuming they haven't made much of it yet...


It's just a pity they rarely visit Apolyton.

	11-09-2001 01:09									#14
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Chunnel or simply undersea tunnels ala CtP series would be great.

If it can be done in Ctp I don't see ANY reason why it couldn't be done in the game, after all, with modern engineering wonders like the Chunnel, Yellow River Dam and the huge suspended bridge built in Japan as recent examples I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

We NEED something besides airports that can connect two land masses without having to load a ship or plane.

	11-09-2001 01:14									#15
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OT: Who spelled it "Yurop"? Or is it a joke because Americans are supposed to be stupid and spell Europe wrong? I'm curious (no that's not me being a dumba$$, I'm truly interested where that specific spelling came from). One other thing, why would any other citzen from North America object to the people from U.S.A. being called Americans? The U.S.A. is the only country that has America in it, should we be called Statesmen? or Uniters? Or, Uniters, Statesmen, of Americans.

	11-09-2001 01:25									#16
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone One other thing, why would any other citzen from North America object to the people from U.S.A. being called Americans? .

The USA shares the americas with many other countries, such as Canada, Mexico, Brazil Ect...

quote: Originally posted by MacTBone should we be called Statesmen? or Uniters? Or, Uniters, Statesmen, of Americans.

I thought that 'Yank' was the excepted term.


What does this have to do with the thread, anyways?

	11-09-2001 01:39									#17
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MTB, I put 'Yurop' next to my Avatar because that is how an American source said 'Europe' was supposed to be pronounced. I can't give you a link though, as I don't remember where I saw it.

Since Japan did a similar thing, maybe it could be a minor wonder?

	11-09-2001 01:45									#18
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Why limit the chunnel concept to a Small or Large (whatever they call it) Wonder. Allow players to build chunnels throughout their territory. It would be like roads, only slower and more expensive. If it's being done for military purposes, the civ on the other side can see it coming, and disrupt or destroy the project. I would have to believe, however, that we're a little late in the ballgame to be suggesting something like this, and it may or may not be an appropriate patch subject.

	11-09-2001 01:52									#19
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hmm i said yes but it could be a flaw in your opponents protection leading you to his homeland?


anyways it could bmake it easier for you and your enemy..

	11-09-2001 01:58									#20
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Yurop, it was in a picture I got from Simhq forums. It was a world map drawn badly with the caption "The world as America sees it"
Russia had Here be Commies written on it and lines pointing away from America saying "Go away commies". South American and Africa had "Here be dragons" Europe was spelt Yurop and Canada had "Our Friendly backwards neighbor" written on it. I wish I could find that picture, I'll keep looking.

	11-09-2001 02:15									#21
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Good Idea, but it won't make it in the original release!!! But maybe in the expansion or Civ4!!!

	11-09-2001 02:22									#22
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EDIT1: oops. attachment didn't work.

EDIT2: attachment is too big. i'll shrink it down later

	11-09-2001 02:52									#23
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The Chunnel would probably be a SW. But if Fireaxis includes the Canal wonder (Any word on this?) then it's likely they at least considered the chunnel. It would be cool to be able to build one tunnel connecting your two most important islands.

Don't know anyhting about the Japanese Chunnel. Anyone care to explain this?

	11-09-2001 09:50									#24
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quote: Originally posted by jsw363 Don't know anyhting about the Japanese Chunnel. Anyone care to explain this?

The Seikan Submarine Tunnel connects Hokkaido island to the main Japanese island. It was the longest undersea tunnel when completed in 88 and remains the longest tunnel, but the chunnel has a longer underwater section.

See http://jin.jcic.or.jp/atlas/architecture/arc01.html or
http://www.discovery.com/stories/te...nl_longest.html

Seikan Tunnel cost US$7 billion and took 24 years to build. IIRC it is considered a prime example of how the Japanese government was willing to build things that are not cost-effective. Still, if Civ3 has a "chunnel" feature then it should use the Seikan tunnel which opened before the Euro tunnel.

	11-09-2001 14:51									#25
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Tingkai, thanks for info on Seikan tunnel.

Morganstern, I disagree with you: underwater tunnels are expensive and difficult to built: see cost and time spent on Seikan and Eurotunnel.

A modern small wonder could be a good choice, adding some limits, e.g.:
- not buildable under very deep waters,
- not connecting ground mass more than three/four tiles far,
- working as a railroad for movement
- defining some rule for defending/attacking it

Definitelly, it's late for Civ III release, but Firaxis used to add in SMAC patches (they called them enhancements ) new terrain specials, as Boreholes Cluster, so it's not impossible they'll add Submarine Channel later.

I've lot of doubts about the ability to MOD this feature from nothing: it seems difficult to me to force the mentioned rules to work with this quite different concept, without the ability to add some code to the .exe

	11-09-2001 15:21									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith A modern small wonder could be a good choice, adding some limits, e.g.: - not buildable under very deep waters, - not connecting ground mass more than three/four tiles far, - working as a railroad for movement - defining some rule for defending/attacking it

Has the Chunnel increased trade between Britain and Europe. If yes, then a Chunnel in CivIII could add a boost to trade.

	12-09-2001 00:39									#27
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Has the Chunnel increased trade between Britain and Europe. If yes, then a Chunnel in CivIII could add a boost to trade.

Not sure, I don't think so. It has made trade easier and quicker though. Basically it has replaced the old ferry system between Dover/Folkestone and Calais/Boulogne.

The Eurostar has also allowed quicker travel between London & Paris and London & Brussels due to the direct train links. If the British actually built a dedicated rail link through Kent then perhaps times could be cut even more. (As is, it takes longer to travel the ~60miles from London to Ashford/Folkestone than the ~180 miles from Calais to Paris

	12-09-2001 00:52									#28
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone OT: Who spelled it "Yurop"? Or is it a joke because Americans are supposed to be stupid and spell Europe wrong? I'm curious (no that's not me being a dumba$$, I'm truly interested where that specific spelling came from).

Check this image:

While adding European wonders; add the Stonehenge, or Circle of Stones. (Religious Effect: ? (find out something (just boost culture (more then other wonders)?)))

	12-09-2001 01:24									#29
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That's it, I had to swap the C: drive on this machine and replace it with the one in mine. Long story, drive C: got cancer and spread through out. About 10% became bad Sectors so I had to copy everthing out that I could save, Windows and My Documents was not with them . 2 years of collecting Funny pictures Gone!. The funniest I had was "The Real American Apology"(to china) It had chinese writing with "If you cannot read Chinese turn 90 degrees to the left. Then it said "Go FU*K Yourself"
Thx for finding that picture BTW, T'is in my collection again!

	12-09-2001 06:09									#30
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nice picture

i agree entirely..

and yes m an american, and no i dont think like that


dont generalize people

i could say a swedes do all day is have sex and polay volleyball

but that wouldnt do the other one percent that drink rum and smoke crack all day justice..