11-09-2001 15:57									#1
	Movement points on railroad Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Does anyone know if the movement points on railroad in civ3 will be the same as in civ2?

That is, no movement points at all. I liked that a lot!
Not realistic, but it increased the fun!

	11-09-2001 16:19									#2
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Well I would prefer that railroads use MP. I really think it is unrealistic for railroads to allow instant mouvement. By the way it is only my point of view.....

	11-09-2001 16:21									#3
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IMO the no-movement-cost -type railroad is very annoying, I actually hate it. How on earth the railroad can be faster than aeroplane??? I hope they have a better solution, like a fixed number of movements per turn. It would also be cool, that between the cities the direction could not be changed

	11-09-2001 17:12									#4
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I liked it also, but it was pretty unrealistic, so the only way to make it good for all people is to make it optional if it should be infinite or not, I don't think this could take that long to put into the game

	11-09-2001 17:30									#5
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well, its probably the same, because everyone so far seems to like it, but admit its unrealistic, and sid said that he always chose fun over realism; much as i had hoped. Still, the ctp system was also alright, because there were so many levels of road

	11-09-2001 17:44									#6
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Did so many people like that 'infinity' aspect? I got used to it, but never actually thought it was 'great' or anything.

1/10th movement would be better in my view -still powerful, and yet more realistic. Anyway, I bet/hope it is adjustable in the rules.txt

	11-09-2001 17:44									#7
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quote: Originally posted by dainbramaged13 Still, the ctp system was also alright, because there were so many levels of road

Well, I really loved that part of ctp where there where 3 levels many of those improvemts, but because of the PW system I almost never used the first 2 levels of roads, farms, etc.

	11-09-2001 17:48									#8
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It's unrealistic but handy, especially on very large maps. But I like the idea that there could be an optional "something" in between roads and limitless movement.

But again, if we wre looking at realism, we'd have to wonder about the one-year timeframe to move anywhere. Giventhe choice, I'd probably go with unlimited railroads.

	11-09-2001 17:55									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Grim Legacy ...1/10th movement would be better in my view -still powerful, and yet more realistic. Anyway, I bet/hope it is adjustable in the rules.txt

I think you mean movement points multiplied by ten. But I think that no railway is significantly faster than other, so it could be between 10 and 15 movement points for all ground units (from slow worker to fast tank), because a train moves relatively same speed regardless the load it carries.

	11-09-2001 17:57									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Earwicker ...But again, if we wre looking at realism, we'd have to wonder about the one-year timeframe to move anywhere. Giventhe choice, I'd probably go with unlimited railroads.

Yes, and the bombers can stay in flight for two years

	11-09-2001 18:00									#11
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo I think you mean movement points multiplied by ten. But I think that no railway is significantly faster than other, so it could be between 10 and 15 movement points for all ground units (from slow worker to fast tank), because a train moves relatively same speed regardless the load it carries.

Like in Civ2, where each move over road would cost 1/3 movement point. I claim that my way of expressing it is more true to the Civ legacy!

	11-09-2001 18:04									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Grim Legacy Like in Civ2, where each move over road would cost 1/3 movement point. I claim that my way of expressing it is more true to the Civ legacy!

Yes, it would be more true to the civ legacy, but it wouldn't be realistic. I mean, a tank would have 50 (?) moves, when infantry would have 10 or 20 (?) moves. Well, whatever it'll be, I'll play it anyway

	11-09-2001 18:07									#13
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo Yes, it would be more true to the civ legacy, but it wouldn't be realistic. I mean, a tank would have 50 (?) moves, when infantry would have 10 or 20 (?) moves. Well, whatever it'll be, I'll play it anyway

That would be 30 steps on railroad for an Armor, yes.

But I didn't intend the 1/10th number to be authorative or anything. Perhaps 1/6 or 1/8 is better.

	11-09-2001 23:45									#14
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I hope it will stay as it was. I know it isn't realistic, but it adds fun to the game.

	12-09-2001 00:14									#15
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo I think you mean movement points multiplied by ten. But I think that no railway is significantly faster than other, so it could be between 10 and 15 movement points for all ground units (from slow worker to fast tank), because a train moves relatively same speed regardless the load it carries.

I concur, railway movement should be the same for all units.

	12-09-2001 01:30									#16
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I love the No movement cost on RR
Perhaps if you could build a Rail Track small wonder, then movement uses points
It would also make one Pop point unhappy every 5 turns due to delays and crashes

	12-09-2001 01:48									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Col Bigspear I love the No movement cost on RR Perhaps if you could build a Rail Track small wonder, then movement uses points It would also make one Pop point unhappy every 5 turns due to delays and crashes

Why would anyone build a wonder that does something negative?

	12-09-2001 01:54									#18
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Its an amusing in-joke.

Railtrack is the company created out of the privatisation of British Rail in '96.

The service has gone to pot and the incidences of train crashes has increased several fold

	12-09-2001 02:06									#19
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OK, I see now.

Hey, I'm a friggin' Chieftain! Only took about a thousand posts to get past settler. To celebrate, I'm changing my avatar (not that anyone gives two sh*ts).

So how many posts does it take to increase in rank? Is there a thread somewhere listing them?

	12-09-2001 02:33									#20
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A railroad-related cosmic rule should be added to the Rules.txt file:
A maximal railroad move-radius input-variable of your choice (0 = infinite), regardless of land unit-type.

(If you put in "12", for example: it means that each and every land-unit have a fixed range of 12 tiles, as long as they move on railroaded tiles. Choosing "0" means infinite moves on railroads - as in Civ-2).

Heres the link to that Poll: About added RR-move related cosmic rule.

	12-09-2001 02:34									#21
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Hmm. it took me about a week and a half to get to chieftain. thats odd

Anyway I like the railroads as they are, but when I automate settlers, the railroads confuse the hell out of them. Same problem with SMAC. I hope that they fix this. I don't have enough time to control every fuggin worker i own. also, i guess you won't need to feed the settlers anymore, will you? thats good.

	12-09-2001 03:43									#22
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Railroads should allow units to travel for free to any city connected to the network. Or maybe just within a certain radius. Move your unit into a city, select a destination city and your unit is transported there instantly. Movement outside cities should remain road-based.

And a central station city improvement should produce trade somehow related to your railway network.

	12-09-2001 03:48									#23
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo Yes, and the bombers can stay in flight for two years

Pfwew... Imagine the Fuel tanks of the helicopters in that case.

	12-09-2001 03:52									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Falconius So how many posts does it take to increase in rank? Is there a thread somewhere listing them?

Nope, no thread.
Find the Apolyton Faq.
Somewhere in the last section you should find your question.

And ehhh... it's not really a ranking system.
More something like a posting level? Higher "ranks" seem to be a bit more active and thereafter usually roam a bit longer in these forums. See it like an indication.

Though sometimes it seems that the higher it gets, the more difficult it is to get a useful answer from them, just like in civ

	12-09-2001 15:54									#25
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Well, if movement over railroad being unrestricted is unrealistic, we should invent a railroad system that really makes it possible to travel timeless!

	12-09-2001 16:39									#26
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To my way of thinking, I like rational limitations. Working against them is what makes the game interesing because you can learn based on experience.


Having a rational, if not realistic, RR system is very desireable. I support the view that any unit on a train moves at the RR system speed, what ever that happens to be. It would be very desireable to have the ability to IMPROVE your RR system, thus increasing speed and reducing accidents. This gives the player another goal to work for.

RR systems should not function like Star Trek Tansporters, your should discover and build transporters. I really hate that.

An Idea, like in EFP (empire of fading suns) is to have theoretical and applied technology and then quality of implementation.


Fore example, you research transportation, and develope container shipping which speeds loading, improves volume and lowers costs.

Transport of units and resources should involve a cost.

Unit supplies: All units could have a 'fuel' bar or value that degrades while the unit is not in a city, fort or airbase. This represents it's need for resupply, food, fuel or repair. Leave a unit somewhere for too long and it just disintigrates. Not a perfect solution but it makes live interesting. The player should be able to disable this feature and some units could be able to forage or self renew.

	13-09-2001 00:09									#27
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I like my units can move as far as I wish on the raidroad, but I do hate enemy's units can also move without limit!
Sometimes when their spy steals technology from my city, I even don't know where they are coming from!!!
They didn't pay me yet, how can they use my railroad!!!

	13-09-2001 05:26									#28
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I've always felt that movement over railroad being unrestricted was totally unrealistic. Even stupid. I think that a 10-15 tiles movement per turn would be the best solution. It would still make railroad an important improvement, and would prevent some ridiculous situations like a tank attacking in South Africa, Portugal and China in the same turn (!).
I am aware that many years go by in a single turn, but then isn't it ridiculous when, for instance, a tank attacks in the above countries in let's say 20 years, while a Stealth Bomber takes 60 years to cross Asia???

	13-09-2001 14:20									#29
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Did you happen to think then that the air system is faulted and not the railroad one. It doesn't take a year to go by train from Asia to Europe.

	13-09-2001 15:44									#30
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PGM,

I agree with RedWhiteArcher that the air-movement system is probably more unrealistic than the railroad system!