13-09-2001 08:12									#1
	Civiliza Demo 3 Is Here! Get a bigger avatar today!

Despite a near state of war in my country, Demo 3 has been finished and is ready for download.

Art files are still bundled in the exe, but there a couple reasons for this, one of them being it would have only made a difference of about 10-20 kilobytes. All art files have been stripped down to smallest size possible and the background file has been down-sampled to 8 bit color. The size of the compressed Demo 3 zip file is 114KB.

Major changes have been made to the Civiliza project, including the switch from real-time to turn-based and mouse support.

List of changes for Demo 3
-Many, many graphical bug fixes, including improper unit
overlaping.
-The switch to turn-based unit moving.
-Ability to build cities.
-Ability to build units.
-Ability to select units and cities with the mouse.
-Selected unit display.
-Basic city window.
-Political map toggle (tiles are now owned by tribes
when cities are built. You CANNOT build a city if
ANY tiles within the potential radius are already
owned by you or your enemy).
-Build costs for units (although this information
is not yet relayed to the screen).
-Ability to fortify units.
-Ability to build roads.
-Unit building limits (currently 4 units per city,
and btw, there is a max of 5 cities that can be
built/captured).
-Map loading.
-New game icon =)
-Change from 32 bit color to 16, for speed and
compatibility issues.
-Complete rework of the AI. The AI now builds cities
and units. The AI now uses roads properly. The AI now
pathfinds to the nearest enemy units/cities or nearest
potential city spot. The AI now fortifies units and
builds roads to its new cities. The AI has basic
strategies on what to build. The AI is definitally not
perfect, but MUCH MUCH better than before.
-Many, many misc bug fixes.


While the game feels a lot more like an actual 'game' now, the gameplay is still pretty limited. Civiliza is obviously still early in development, but this is definitally a big step up from the previous release. I very much appreciate any help I can get from you guys in the form of bug reports, comments, and suggestions.

This release is actually Civiliza Demo 3a. There will be a second Demo 3 release coming soon (coinciding with the start of the web page) that will include support for a new map editor, as well as bug fixes.

I hope you enjoy this newest version of Civiliza. I wrote it all solo, and I'm very proud of it so far.

-dexter4dxm

Attachment: civiliza_d3a.zip
This has been downloaded 26 time(s).

	14-09-2001 18:21									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

horray again!!
now the mouse is here and cities i am more eager to get civilaza 3, here i go...

	14-09-2001 18:34									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

wow!
the Ai is easy to kill, but i like it on easy, but that is a great imrovement.

	15-09-2001 05:46									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Very true, the AI is easy. I am looking into ways to help the AI have a better chance. The introduction of another AI player into the same map will likely change everything, even though the AI players will fight each other. Also, unfortunately there are no routines that control AI offensives - they will only seek out nearby enemy units/cities. Hmmm, demo 4 maybe?

tisco, do you have any suggestions on what to change/fix/add for the second demo 3 release? Meaning that any suggestions you have are at the level the game is at now.

So far, Demo 3b will have:
- A map editor
- Possibly more AI players (requires very few changes to the code, as the infrastructure for more AI players is already in the game)
- Ability to move map view with mouse clicks (this has already been coded since the release of Demo 3a)
- Way of knowing which units are fortified

Please, any suggestions will be very appreciated

	15-09-2001 12:25									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

Add shroud to that list. it's in the game now. All adjacent tile dithering will be put in much later, I'm not interested in making this game be very 'pretty' right now.

Here's a shot of the latest build:

Attachment: sshot5.jpg
This has been downloaded 88 time(s).

	15-09-2001 12:29									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

scrolling without pressing 0 then a number key

there was a bug that fortified units unfortifies themselves i think

maybe very primative sea units

definately more ai players

in the next few demos you could try and get diplomacy up, but i realise how hard this is to make it not so predictable you control it like Age of kings, but not stressy the whole time like civ II

	15-09-2001 14:34									#7
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by tishco scrolling without pressing 0 then a number key

do you mean like with mouse clicking? or scrolling of the map when the mouse is at the edges of the screen? or what? please clarify

quote: there was a bug that fortified units unfortifies themselves i think

if this occurs when you attack an enemy unit who is fortified in one of its cities, and it becomes unfortified, then it's okay. that was purposely put in the game because right now combat is all one-way (you damage the unit you attack, but they dont fight back until their turn).

quote: maybe very primative sea units

good idea

quote: definately more ai players

after reading your post, I set the player limit to 3 for the first time and I added a new settler for the new AI player. It worked on the first try. I can definitally say that it did have a dramatic affect on the game. I played one game with 2 other AI players, and we were all battling it out. I have to admit it was fun!
After I post this I'm putting a 3rd AI player in.

quote: in the next few demos you could try and get diplomacy up, but i realise how hard this is to make it not so predictable you control it like Age of kings, but not stressy the whole time like civ II

I'm not sure which next gameplay area I will tackle. If you had to pick one to come next, out of diplomacy, tech tree, city improvements, or resources, which would you pick?

	16-09-2001 11:58									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

i thought like SMAc mouse scrolling, off the edge of the screen

diplomacy, cos civ-evo had everyhing but that and felt hollow. the lack of thech trees ok 'cos theres some stategy going on allready, , eg. phalanx , or elephant rush? but thats probably the next priority,

then city improvement and then resorses, sumthing like that.

i think youre allowed to use civ II art 'cos civevo did.

	17-09-2001 01:26									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

You have an impressive number of improvements since the last demo, Dex. Especially considering it hasn't been all that long since Demo 2. Keep up the good work, it's getting ever more interesting.

quote: Originally posted by tishco i think youre allowed to use civ II art 'cos civevo did.

Doubtful. That's copyrighted material. If Civ Evolution is using it, they're almost certainly doing so without permission. They may get away with it for a while, but if the owners of Civ II ever get wind of it, the very least that would happen is that they'd be forced to remove it from their game.

Ron

	17-09-2001 12:56									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by tishco i thought like SMAc mouse scrolling, off the edge of the screen

I'm not too familiar with SMAC, only played it for a half-hour, but I do know what you mean. I can put it in the game easily, but it will not scroll smoothly, it will scroll the whole map over one tile and so on. Smooth scrolling is one of those 'pretty' things that i am saving for much later. I'm in the middle of writting a smooth scrolling isometric engine for another game i'm working on (and it works so far), but it is not necessary for Civiliza right now so I don't want to implement that yet. If it's not too choppy, I will put in basic map scrolling.

quote: diplomacy, cos civ-evo had everyhing but that and felt hollow. the lack of thech trees ok 'cos theres some stategy going on allready, , eg. phalanx , or elephant rush? but thats probably the next priority,

One reason I want to get into the tech-tree is because it paves the way for some of my more interesting ideas on nukes. Those kind of things are still long term though, I guess I need to focus on what the next step should really be.

quote: i think youre allowed to use civ II art 'cos civevo did.

I'm certainly not harming the developers or publishers of Civ2 financially with my game. However, it won't matter soon. The time for original artwork in the game is coming. Expect new art in Demo 4.

quote: Originally posted by RonHiler You have an impressive number of improvements since the last demo, Dex. Especially considering it hasn't been all that long since Demo 2. Keep up the good work, it's getting ever more interesting.

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.

	17-09-2001 13:10									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

btw, for all those many many people waiting for Demo 3b , the wait will be worth it. Demo 3b fixes many mean, ugly bugs, including bugs that contributed to the AI taking way too long during it's turn, and a bug which actually dissallowed the AI players to destroy your cities! That's right, you probably don't know it because Demo 3a is so easy, but if the AI already has 5 cities and they try to take one of yours, they will move to it and not destroy it! Bad bug! Bad!

Aside from the bugs, new features like shroud and multiple AI players will be in. In fact, they are already in the latest build and they are working perfectly.

I'm estimating there's about a week until Demo 3b and the new website.

Sorry for all the tons of posts, I like to keep my wanna-be community informed

-dex

	17-09-2001 17:39									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

i dont think SMAc was smooth and from the e3 video civ3 hadnt got smooth scrolling!
your probably right about illegal graphics though, get original pics in and that isnt a worry

	19-09-2001 10:52									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

little update on the status of Civiliza Demo 3b: the sentry command has been added, and you can now be able to tell which units are fortified/sentried. you can now also use the 'kill command', which is similar to the disband command in Civ2. This is necessary because of the population caps.

Much progress has been made on the map editor, which is a main component of the 3b release. Here's a shot of the making of a desert kingdom. Notice you can set the starting locations for 8 players; a total of 7 AI players will be usable in 3b.

Demo 3b should be here within a couple days

Attachment: sshot6.jpg
This has been downloaded 81 time(s).

	19-09-2001 21:16									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

prob with civ3 is only 8 play normally, to get 16 either lots of revolutions or scenario, and then they say there is a huge map, i would like from alt civs loads of civs on normal maps,

idea, if barbarians if they take over a citie there is a new civ if slots empty, should have been 4 civ3 but i doubt it has it so is there going to be barb.s in civilaza

	20-09-2001 10:15									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

it is very unlikely that barbarians will be civiliza.

news on Demo 3a:
edge map scrolling is in, and basic sea units are in (only the trireme will be usable in 3a, and there's no transporting units yet).

the web site is almost ready, it sucks, but it's almost ready

-dex

	20-09-2001 19:12									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

wow, someone who acts to sugestions seriosly
way better than firaxis + ask the civ team!

	21-09-2001 14:49									#17
	Demo 3b is ready! Enter the AD-FREE zone

It's all here: the latest build of Civiliza, the Civiliza map editor, and the tiny, wayyyy unfinished website.

Head on over to http://www.geocities.com/dexter4dxm/ to get the goods.

Please report any problems with the website.

As always, bug reports and suggestions are welcome.

Info on Demo 3b from the readme

UPDATED FROM DEMO 3a:
-Added map edge scrolling.
-Added graphical representation of the unit build costs.
-Updated AI routines so AI can use ships correctly.
-Fixed bug causing AI players to take forever to randomly move (for reals this time!)
-Fixed bug where player's unit would become unfortified. thanks tisco
-Added ability to see what units are fortified/sentried.
-Added kill unit command, necessary for population caps.
-Added sentry command.
-Added support for basic sea units.
-Enabled clicking on the tile you want to center the view on.
-Added shroud.
-Fixed bug where AI's would incorrectly select units (causing all kinds of strange stuff to happen).
-Fixed bug which preventing AI's from destroying enemy cities (if they have no city slots left)
-Misc small bug fixes.

The Civiliza map editor, called "CiviMap", is now
included in this demo release. The map editor will
always look for a map file called "newmap.dat". If the
file does not exist, a new map will be created.
The actual Civiliza game uses the map file called
"map.dat", so when you are done editing your map,
rename it to "map.dat" and it will load up in the
game correctly. Don't forget to put starting locations.
The default map included in the download is a simple
map I quickly made with the map editor. It has 3 AI
players.

	21-09-2001 22:24									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

that is very very very hard now.
U need diplomacy for 4/5 to present a good reason to play it instead of civevo and to stop the ohters killing you byall ganging up!!!
a lot better though.


question:
how do the unit stats change cos i recon they are all the same apart from unit production and movement, 'cos i was using phalanx to guard but they die equaly from phalanx to elephant!

	22-09-2001 08:41									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

right now the combat is very basic. all units do one hit point of damage no matter what. the phalanx and the elephant have two hit points each, and the rest have only one hit point. all this is temporary. elephants are the best units to build right now.

and about the AI's, they don't really gang up on you, because they fight each other too. as you can see, i have been following your suggestions so far. i will probably end up trying to get diplomacy in the game soon.

apparently, you're the only one actively following this game, so keep it touch

	22-09-2001 12:28									#20
	Suffering from ads?

so at the moment its possible to an elaphant rush on the for the one every one attcks churn out warriers and phalanxs!

'cos i have had a p166 with 16mb ram ans 100mb free on the hard drive with a broke cd drive for 2 years i've "lived" off abandonware and freeware so i am in "the know" about stuff like that so i am intrested in projects like alt civs

	23-09-2001 14:15									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

i'm really not sure.

just out of curiousity, how slow does civiliza run on your computer?

	23-09-2001 16:53									#22
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

civilaza runs fast as it can go now, i got new pc, 32mb graphix card 1000mhz 128ram!
now i can run everything

i shud have said i had a p166, have had means ive still got it.
oops

	23-09-2001 17:40									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

nice.

i hope you'll still pay attention to my project, i need at least one person to help me!

even when civ3 comes out and you become utterly addicted to it, i hope you'll give each version of civiliza a try. btw, any ideas for an actual name for my game? the next release will have unique art, so i might as well have a unique name to go with it.

	23-09-2001 21:22									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

or getting shogun at last, i have been wanting that when i had the rubbish pc and it was just out of my specs.

what about.....
civilisation


seriosly though, i am really stuck by that...

	13-12-2001 03:01									#25
	Put an end to popups!

This discussion looks fascinating.

How's it going on the project?

	13-12-2001 05:02									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

it's going pretty good. have you taken a look at the thread called "the wait for civiliza d4"? all the recent discussions about this project are in that thread, so take a look if you haven't already.

demo 4 is days away from being released.