15-09-2001 01:35									#1
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quote: Originally posted by Napoleon Hitler: I dislike the 2/1/2 (attack/defense/move) setup of the Babylonian Bowman Unit. Here is why: 1) the Egyptian War Chariot is already 2/1/2, and rightly so, given a Standard Chariot is 1/1/2 2) the Babylonian Bowman rides no horse or vehicle to increase its speed, and given the numbers for a Standard Archer 2/1/1, I cannot see why the Babylonian Bowman should be any faster To reduce redundancy and unrealistic speed, here are three possible changes that could be made to the Babylonian Bowman Unit: 1) make the Babylonian Bowman a 2/2/1 2) make the Babylonian Bowman a 3/1/1 3) make the Babylonian Bowman a 2(2)/1/1 Explanations: 1) Increase its defense. The attack of an archer with the defense of a spearman = nice unit. 2) Increase its attack. This would make it quite a conqueror early in the game. A good offense is a good defense. 3) Give it the ability to bombard the enemy. This would give it the ability to attack enemies from a distance without suffering any direct damage. Only if the enemy survived the bombardment of arrows and was close enough to attack when its turn came around would it be able to inflict damage on the Bowman. I especially like the third idea. It would most likely be the first unit to get the bombard capability assuming that you could make it with Warrior Code technology. Also, changing it to any of the above three recommended (a/d/m)'s would be more realistic than a dramatic increase in speed and would take some redundancy out of the game (see the Egyptian War Chariot).

see the thread here.

What do you think about this? Should they reduce the Babylonian Bowman's mobility? It is a bit odd to think that a foot archer could keep up with a chariot in a race.

	15-09-2001 01:42									#2
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chariots would break alot, so if they had a reputation of being very mobile then i think it's fine for them to move like that. plus they could go places a chariot would. this is from tile to tile, not a 1/4 mile race

	15-09-2001 01:48									#3
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quote: Originally posted by d_dudy chariots would break alot, so if they had a reputation of being very mobile then i think it's fine for them to move like that. plus they could go places a chariot would. this is from tile to tile, not a 1/4 mile race

In that case...compare them to a knight 4/3/2. Surely they couldn't move as fast as an army of knights.

	16-09-2001 01:16									#4
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I am not sure about this...but if the Dragoons and Cavalry only get 2 moves, then there is no way in the world that the Babylonian Bowmen should get 2 moves.

	16-09-2001 01:28									#5
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If you're going to give it a bombard ability, make sure it can only bombard units its adjacent to. anything else would be moronic. its a bow, not a cannon.

	16-09-2001 01:42									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Kc7mxo If you're going to give it a bombard ability, make sure it can only bombard units its adjacent to. anything else would be moronic. its a bow, not a cannon.

Fair enough, but if Firaxis did change it, they would probably change it to a 3/1/1 or 2/2/1 anyways.

	16-09-2001 16:07									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Dimorier Maximus In that case...compare them to a knight 4/3/2. Surely they couldn't move as fast as an army of knights.

Hm, medieval knights could go with fast speed only in relatively short periods (when attacking) due to their heavy equipment (later even the horses were armoured). All heavy cavalry units may also have trouble in difficult terrain, so generally their are not always faster...

	17-09-2001 01:03									#8
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I agree that the bowman should not be 2 speed. Actually...what up with the Bowman? Doesn't it seem like they were reaching to find an appopriate unit? How about an engineer with some added ability? Maybe able to do forts before construction or something...

That seems to be more "Babylonian"

	17-09-2001 01:05									#9
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Ahhh...how about single turn irrigation?

	17-09-2001 07:19									#10
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It seems that this could be a balanced related issue. I certainly don't think the Bowman can bombard better than your average archer unit. I don't think it's out of the question that they can move at 2. Afterall the knights did travel with a lot of other people who were on foot.


GP,

The SU must be a combat unit since it's one of the triggers for the Golden Age.

	17-09-2001 10:34									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger The SU must be a combat unit since it's one of the triggers for the Golden Age.

Huh? Why can't the special unit be a non-combat unit?

	17-09-2001 15:39									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I don't think it's out of the question that they can move at 2. Afterall the knights did travel with a lot of other people who were on foot.

Yeah, the Hoplite should probably be a 1.3.3 then because I'm sure they can travel with a Rider. And the Swordsmen also, they should get 2 moves because they often traveled with Knights.

In game terms it is ridiculous for one archer to be one speed while all other foot units, including other archers, are moving at another. It is inconsistent. Not to mention that it makes the Bowman the spittin' image of a War Chariot.