15-09-2001 15:34									#1
	New RP (RolePlaying) game - players wanted Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

As the title suggests, Hydro and I are looking to revive the roleplay game concept.

Classic SMAC

Remember the original?:

___________________________________

Settings: Huge planet, abundant native life, average everything else.

Other settings: default settings, except for directed research (on).

Additional rules:

1) A faction may not use any advanced SE setting that conflicts with its agenda. For example, the Morganites may not use the Green setting, because it conflicts with Free Market. They could use Simple economics, because that is not an advanced SE setting.

2) A faction may not win a cooperative victory with another faction with an incompatible agenda. In this particular game, this means that the Hive may not win a cooperative victory with the Peacekeepers.

3) Research settings: Factions emphasize their "default" interests when researching. (The default interests are:
Gaians: Explore
Peacekeepers: Explore, Discover
Hive: Conquer, Build
Morgan: Build
Spartans: Discover, Conquer
University: Discover
Believers: Explore, Conquer)

4) No cheats. Refer to the various cheats threads if you are unsure, or pose a question here.

5) This is a role-playing-oriented game, so play your faction to the hilt, and don't worry too much about winning!

_____________________________________

RP1, which stalled with XWaste's disappearance from the Forums, had:

Spartans, Googlie
Gaians, Hydro
Morgan, RedFred
Hive, Alinestra Covelia
PKs, Hobbes

with part time participation of

Deimos
Stuntman19
and the now missing XWaste

The original RP game (that stalled with Vel's illness) had:

Gaians: Basil,
Peacekeepers: JoeR,
Hive: Waynehead,
Morgan: Velociryx,
Spartans: Kinjiru,
University: Ogie Oglethorpe,
Believers: Googlie

First five who sign up will be accepted, with factions being given in order of posting.

Hydro will take the Gaians. I'll take what's left at the end.

Googlie

Last edited by Googlie on 11-10-2001 at 06:15

	15-09-2001 16:26									#2
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I am interested in playing as the Peacekeepers.

	15-09-2001 16:53									#3
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Sounds like fun. I will take the Hive.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yang was daydreaming, recalling snippets of conversations from his boyhood

" remember my son, only through absolute subservience to the state do you truly honour it"

"Individual rights !?? They can be accomodated only to the extent that thay do not interfere with the needs of the collective"

(from an ancient televid show) "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few . . . . or the one"


He interrupted the flow of conversation around him and spoke, oblivious to the adoration obvious in the face of every person in the room, " To fulfill our destiny, our society must be based on the principle of service to the state . . . ."

	15-09-2001 16:55									#4
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Count me in. I would like to try the University.

	15-09-2001 17:18									#5
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Colonel Deimos of the Spartan Federation, reporting for duty!

	15-09-2001 17:25									#6
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Question: I saw that you indicated that this was Classic SMAC. If all the players participating have a copy of SMACX, would it be possible to utilize that instead? Keeping the original factions, of course.

	16-09-2001 01:16									#7
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I'll give the Morgan faction a go. I assume this time we will send all our pws to a neutral party?

	16-09-2001 01:28									#8
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So ..... Brother Googlie of the Believers, I am

Players are:

Hydro - Gaians
Tau Ceti - PKs
Flubber - Hive
Qantaga - University
Deimos - Sparta
RedFred - Morgan
Googlie - Believers

AndIi think we do all have SMAX, so it could be set up thru that.

Re passwords - I think we should get it CMN's - I'll e-mail Dilidad to see if he has the time to set it up for us. That way too, we can get a somewhat accelerated start (3 pods and 2 scouts - 1 rover and 1 scout for Sparta) to take some of the tedium from the early moves.

Remember, roleplay the faction choices, agendas etc to the hilt, and keep a log and either post the log or turn it into a short story (a la Hydro in the original stalled game). Course you don't have to write about them if you don't want to.

G.

	17-09-2001 14:19									#9
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Wow, that was fast! I'm glad there's interest since I really missed the old RP1, which may or may not ever see the light of day again.

I suggest we start a tracking thread. Out of courtesy it would be nice to post when you will be out for a while so the rest of the RP players don't wonder where their posts are!

Hydro

P.S. - This RP filled up fast. Are there others interested? If there is it might be possible to start up another RP game.

	17-09-2001 14:44									#10
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I would be glad to CMN this as long as it can be SMAC 4.0. I could also serve as a substitute player for anyone who goes out of town, which would be easy since I would have all the passwords. I have some experience with roleplay games, but I displike SE restrictions.

	17-09-2001 15:03									#11
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I am game for Smac or Smax. If there is anything else I need to do to get this rolling just post here or email me at sharris41@hotmail.com

	17-09-2001 16:18									#12
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D-Dad:

SMAC it is then.

Do you need anything else from us by way of conditions before building the start scenario?

I suggest Transcend level (as was the original)

Hydro:

Dilithium Dad, as CMN, would normally start a tracking thread setting out turn order and e-mail addies, etc. Obviously he will also assign passwords, so that we will not have a repeat of the XWaste fiasco.

G.

Last edited by Googlie on 17-09-2001 at 16:26

	17-09-2001 16:55									#13
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Just curious but what happened in Xwaste? Did a pleyer leave and the game died since no one had their password?

	17-09-2001 20:39									#14
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DiDad, thanks for agreeing to CMN for us. I am having a great time in a Builder/Momentum game that you set up, so I know we are in good hands. I am looking forward to this game. You may already have my e-mail but, just in case, it is:

qantaga@aol.com

Hydro, if there is enough interest to start a second game, I would love to play in that game as another faction. This sounds like a lot of fun. I like the idea of, as Googlie says, role-playing your faction "to the hilt".

	17-09-2001 20:54									#15
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Just curious: What is the definition of an 'incompatible agenda'?

If it means diametrically opposed agendas/aversions, the Believers and University should not be able to do a coop victory either (nor, I would argue, should the Gaians and Morgan). If it means a different agenda in the same category, add University/Spartans and Believers/Hive/Peacekeepers to the list. But I am wondering how it is defined if only a Hive/PK coop is excluded.

	17-09-2001 21:56									#16
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Tau, I was wondering the same type of thing since only you and I would be excluded unless the PK/ Hive was only an example. Would it make sense to totally disable co-op victory or would that be unfair to the PK who, played to the hilt according to their ideology, should seek allies.

	17-09-2001 22:54									#17
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I would be interested playing in a second RP game...

Last edited by SITS on 17-09-2001 at 23:09

	18-09-2001 00:51									#18
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Agendas and Aversions (for those who don’t know these by heart):

Peacekeepers – agenda Democracy, aversion Police State
Hive – agenda Police State, aversion Democracy
Gaians – agenda Green Democracy (primarily Green, in my opinion), aversion Free Market
Believers – agenda Fundamentalist, aversion Knowledge
UoP – agenda Knowledge, aversion Wealth
Morgan – agenda Free Market, aversion Planned
Spartans – agenda Power, aversion Wealth

Here is my understanding on the basic rules of incompatible agendas (miss-matched SE agenda or aversion):
* You may NOT pact with a faction that has an incompatible SE objective. For instance, the PKs could not pact with the Hive since the basis for their societies are too different.
* You may NOT pact with a faction that has a SE selection that your faction has an aversion to. For example, the Gaians could not pact with the UoP if they had a SE of free market.
* You may treaty with a faction that has an incompatible agenda or SE, but there has to be a very good reason for this. This rationale would be explained in a post to the other RP players, or in a storyline (like I did in RP1).
* If a faction with an incompatible agenda also has an incompatible SE selection then you may not have more than a truce. For instance, if Morgan is running FM, then the Gaians could only be at truce or war with them. If he later switches to Green (!!) then the Gaians could have a treaty of friendship with Morgan (for as long as THAT would last…) but not a pact.
* Likewise, if a faction has a SE that is on your agenda you should be friendly to them. The extent of that friendship is, however, up to the faction leader.

So, here are the following factions that can not EVER pact:
* Gaians-Morgan (Gaians hate FM)
* PKs-Hive (PKs hate Police, Hive hates Democracy)
* Believers-UoP (Believers hate Knowledge)
* Sparta-everyone (just kidding…)
(The Gaian agenda of Democracy is debatable. If she has an agenda of Green and Democracy then Dee couldn’t pact with either Yang or Morgan. Others please chime in here…)

Other details on faction agendas - As soon as you are able, you faction must take your objective SE. You can delay the objective SE or change from it to something else if you have a good reason, and (as mentioned) you need to justify this deviation toward your faction’s particular fanaticism.

The idea in RP is to be true to your faction’s ideals, and not necessarily to win at all costs. This does not mean that you have to be stupid, of course, but only that pragmatism can only go too far. I thought Ely did a nice job of this in Dragon Sun, where the Gaians and Hive allied for mutual benefit even though both had misgivings about the other. Likewise, in Ely’s recent book you could never see Deirdre allying (or even having trade relations) with Morgan – they were just too far apart to have anything but chilly relations. The basic problem is that they could not comprehend the other’s motives, and the distrust this sows is just too great.

Anyone else, please jump in

The players for RP2 are set. There seems to be interest in a RP3, so if we can get DD to act as host then people can start claiming factions. I would recommend that RP3 stick with the original SMAC factions since they are balanced against each other. Other factions might be interesting, but the built-in antagonisms would be lost.

Hydro

	18-09-2001 01:32									#19
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Thanks hydro

That makes more sense now. I thought the earlier post meant there was only one incompatibility and that did not make sense to me. Just so I have it straight . . . . the hive in PS can pact with the believers in Fundy as long as the Hive is not running knowledge. Having agendas on the "same line" is not incompatibility if I understand this right. You do not have to run their agenda to be friends--- you just need to not be running, or not have a predisposition for, their aversion.

The Hive in PS/Planned/ Wealth would be adverse to PK (always) and Morgan/UoP/ Spartans but could go down to only one adverse faction (Miriam) by running Green/knowledge. Thats just my settings. Since most players run demo a lot, I guess I will have to accept that I will have very few or very short-lived pacts.

If thats right I think I understand and hope to see the first turn soon so we can whip through those first 10-20 turns that are often oh so routine.

	18-09-2001 03:46									#20
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In RP1 although the first few turns were the usual boring move unit, pop pod, etc, they did give rise to some good short fiction, what with Hydro and Alinestra Covelia in the game, both prolific writers.

XWaste quit on us just as it was getting interesting. redFred (Sparta) and I (Morgan) were neighbors, and had just come to "an understanding" that might have proven verrrry interrresting to play !!

G.

	18-09-2001 03:56									#21
	Re: New RP (RolePlaying) game - players wanted Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Googlie 4) No cheats. Refer to the various cheats threads if you are unsure, or pose a question here.

There's a few things that, based on personal preference, are or are not considered cheats. Those that immediately leap to mind are A) Stockpile after units and B) DW upgrades before end of turn.

Personally, I would vote for allowing both. How do the rest of you feel?

Also, are there any other "cheats" that rub you the wrong way or you feel are a natural part of the game?

	18-09-2001 05:44									#22
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I believe that we did allow stockpiling energy and DW upgrades & reverse engineering (except for using the probe's speeder chassis before doc mobility)

I don't have an old savedturn on this laptop so I can't check if I did stockpile, but I'm sure we did - it was the playing that was important, not the winning, so I don't think we were too rigorous on cheats.

Hydro or RedFred? - comments?

G.

	18-09-2001 14:18									#23
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I don’t recall whether DW upgrades, reverse engineering, and stockpiling were disallowed. These seem more like preferences than cheats to me, so I do not have a strong opinion of either since they won’t affect a RP-style game much. What is specifically BANNED is changing SE for negotiation purposes, especially since much of the RP diplomacy is based on SE.

I agree with G that the RP, not the winning, is what is important. Does someone have the link to the cheats thread? I think it would be useful for the RP players to review these and hash them out with the RP-style play in mind.

Hydro

	18-09-2001 17:11									#24
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If a 2nd RP game is going to start I would like to be the Hive.

	18-09-2001 17:23									#25
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Here are the rules Tau Ceti uses for his PBEM tournament (edited to remove rules about AI and Tournament Maps that would not apply to this game):

*Multiple reloading of the game to try for different effects is forbidden.

*Multiple drops or orbital insertions using the right-click menu is forbidden.

*Inserting Stockpile Energy into the build queue after a military unit is forbidden.

*If a player employs a tactic that causes a state of vendetta, they are not allowed to "accept" a pending diplomatic agreement with that faction, causing a change in diplomatic status or the transfer of energy or knowledge.

*If a probe team action is employed against a Treatied or Pacted faction, the initiator must choose the "Declare Vendetta" option, unless permission is received in advance for the action (email).

*Upgrading units with the design workshop is allowed at end of turn only.

*Communications only allowed between factions that have obtained each others' commlink frequencies in-game.

*Social engineering choice limited to one switch per line per turn. (no flip-flop within turn!)

*Psi units cannot be assigned multiple point patrol routes (avoid instant demon boil bug!)

-------
I would agree that Stockpile Energy, use of the Design Workshop at any time and Reverse Engineering could be used within the Role-Playing aspect of this game, but I think we would want to abide by the rest of these rules.

It seems as if there are some links to other sites than might contain lists of cheats, but I was unable to find them.

I really like the idea of this game being about the playing, not the winning.

	18-09-2001 17:28									#26
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This sounds like fun! If there is an opening for Morgan in an RP game I'll take it.

- Scipio

	18-09-2001 18:30									#27
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Referring to my previous post I would like to take on the role of the Gaians....

	18-09-2001 19:07									#28
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Googlie, thanks for starting a thread advertising for players to fill in the second Role-Playing game.

Hydro, with SITS requesting the Gaians, we now have the Hive, Morgan and the Gaians spoken for. Which faction would you like for the second game? I am happy to take whichever faction is left after everyone else has made their choices.

For those of you who may be interested, we are looking for two more players in the second game and Googlie's thread advertising for those two spots can be found here!

So, come on over and post if you want one of those spots.

	19-09-2001 21:39									#29
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Is RP (1) due to start soon?

	19-09-2001 22:24									#30
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I believe Dilithium Dad is setting up the scenario even as we post

G