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Ralf
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Sweden
Mar 2000
time: 06:15
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The Leonardos Workshop wonder was waaaay to powerful in Civ-2. It unbalanced the game. It was easily much more worthwhile then the Eiffeltower + Darwins Voyage + Statue of Liberty put together. Hell, even if they added Cure for Cancer also, and if I was forced to choose between these four wonder OR Leonardos Workshop, I think would have chosen the latter anyway. I dont know if its still in. If it is, it must be downgraded. I suggest:
- LW is now a small Wonder, available for those who have earned enough veteran combat-points.
- You must pay an upgrade-fee for each unit - still favourable compared with building from scratch.
- You can only upgrade units fortified in your cities. You must bring them in.
- Any achieved veteran/elite combat-status falls down one step, in the process.
Such a "downgraded" small Leonardos Workshop Wonder, would still be a very attractive to have, the way I see it. Finally, (I almost forgot) you cannot upgrade any unit-type to any different updated unit-type, of course.
- Bombers only to advanced bombers
- Early wooden warships only to advanced wooden warships
- Infantry defence-units only to more advanced infantry defence-units
- Early tanks only to modern tanks, and so on.
Last edited by Ralf on 16-09-2001 at 23:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Ilkuul
No, no, leave Leonardo's exactly the way it is -- I love it! |
I agree.
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Bleyn
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quote:
Originally posted by saracen31
And then the totally stupid ones: if I build the Apollo Program or Manhattan Project, why should the whole world benefit?
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I can think of one good reason why everyone should benifit from them at least in terms of Civ2. Would you really want the game set up where the civ that builds the Manhattan project is the ONLY one that gets nukes? Of the one that builds the Apollo project is the ONLY one to get into space?
The game would basically become a race to build those projects.
I agree there should be more of a benifit just to the civ that builds them, at least for the Apollo project. But exclusivity would be too nasty.
There are a couple ways I can see that they could use to deal with this that would be more balancing.
1. A Major Wonder/Minor Wonder combo. The major wonder, say the Apollo Program, has to be built first. The minor wonder just plain isn't available until then. Once the major wonder is built, every other civ with the right prereqs. can build a similar but scaled down minor wonder. And that would be the key difference, the major wonder would have some benifits only available to them. For example, maybe reduced costs on spaceship construction.
2. A Women's Sufferage/Police Station type combo. IE. The civ with the Wonder get the equivilent of the city improvement in every city. This might be more appropriate for the Manhattan Project. Thus if you don't have the M.P. wonder, you have to build a nuclear weapons factory in a city before you can build nucs. there. But if you have it, you can build them everywhere. Though, I would still think it best to require the M.P. to be built before nuc. weapons factories became available to everyone else.
I'm sure there are other ways these wonders could be balanced with just a little creative thought.
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Bleyn
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quote:
Originally posted by Father Beast
ummm... It's already been announce that Apollo and Manhattan will be minor wonders. each civ wanting to go to space will have to build apollo, and any civ wanting nukes will have to build manhattan first. |
Ah... Its a little hard to keep up with these things sometimes. And the way Saracen31 was talking about it, it did sort of sound like that info wasn't available yet.
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Sabre2th
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I would say that Leo's is probably either changed or not in, since resources are now needed.
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The_Aussie_Lurker
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Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
May 2001
time: 05:15
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Actually, I have an Idea for keeping Leonardos Workshop in the game without it having the same unbalancing effect. Basically it should probably be kept as a major wonder, but if its a minor wonder then it should require the civ to have at least 5 barracks/5 Universities. Essentially, whenever you begin researching a new military technology, you get a free "Prototype" unit that goes with that advance. The unit should have a higher maintainance cost until you have actually finished your research, at which point it becomes an ordinary unit of that type. Obviously, if the "Prototype" gets destroyed, thats it, you don't get any more!!
Aside from that. Leonardos should HALVE the cost of unit upgrades (which I think should work as in SMAC!!)
An alternative model for unit upgrades, however, could involve a number of turns required to upgrade a unit in the field (between 2-8 turns-depending on unit type), as well as a cost. Units in a fortress or barracks (or port etc) could upgrade in half this time, and paying 2x upgrade cost could halve this again. If this model for unit Upgrades were adopted, then Leonardos "secondary" function might be to halve the time for unit upgrades in the field (to between 1-4 turns), with all other halving factors counting from this point!
Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.
Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.
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16-09-2001 23:32
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