08-05-2001 23:41									#1
	NOT useless units! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

::Bounce::
Hi! I'm back....I have been gone a while...

Anyway, I noticed a thread on "Useless units"

Among them were: Trireme, Legion, Explorers...

Trireme: Oh COME ON! It's the earliest ship...it carries two units for three spaces, and it changes to a transport with Leos.
What's not to like? If you're on an Island, you can find another Island quickly....and another ship is a Loooooooong way away.

Legions: This one really burns my butt.
First off...Legions is simple to get.
A Legion is a 4, 2 unit, for 40 Shields.

It moves One Space.

Now....first off, it's QUICK. You can build Legions right off the bat, or with One advance. Iron Working. If you start with bronze working, you can Build Legions within 10 turns.

Secondly, they have the ability to take a beating. A veteran Legion can take an attack from an Archer, and win. They can counter-attack, and kill a veteran Warrior behind a city wall.

"But...why not use an Elephant!?"
Well...Yes, Elephants are good, in SOME situations. An Elephant is capable of Moving twice the distance as a Legion, and hitting as Hard. So a Herd of Elephants will win....right?

Well....Unless there's, say, a forest in the way. Or a Mountain Chain.
All of a sudden, your Elephant is moving slowly...and WOW! He also is a sitting duck for enemy legions, Elephants, Archers, etc.

Now....same situation:
Legion tromps into a forest...DARE someone to attack you.
2+1+1=4 defense... And that's without and kind of defensive action. A Legion can shrug off an Archer, and have an even chance of stopping an Elephant which attacks.

Now....Let's say you have an Enemy Kingdom, with City walls, and three Phalanx behind it.

Chances are you want Catapaults. And, of course, an escort to keep some wwarrior from trashing your expensive Unit.

Now....Total Cost: Catapault+Phalanx=60 shields.

And the Phalanx can't attack.

Legions are quick, if you're on an Island with an Enemy, they might be your only hope.

If your enemy doesn't have city walls, then a Legion can take it all on it's lonesome.

(Vet Legion: Att 6, def: 3)
(Phalanx: 2+1+1=4...No defenses..)
AND you don't need an escort.

Once a Legion takes a place, generally it stays there.
I love having my Legions move through forests, over hills and mountains. If the enemy dares to attack they lose a Unit, and I continue moving at base speed.

In conclusion:
Use elephants if you have an enemy who has nothing but plains between you and him. Use a Catapault/Phalanx combo for taking down heavy defenses. Use a whole bunch of Legions if there's any kind of rocky terrain, and your opponent can put up a fight.

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I dunno. I think nukes are cool..If you're the only one who has em.

	09-05-2001 00:41									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

We should make a thread for the GL about units and strategies. Have at least one strategy per unit, like in ancient use warrios for early exploration and citizen subduing, phalanx are main defence which can be stacked with heavy offencive units as escorts, etc.

	09-05-2001 01:49									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

An aside, the defense factors are multiplied together, not added. For more info than you may care to read about combat, see the Info: Combat (GL) thread.

I agree, legions are good. They are the first barbarians to appear that make me worry about defenses. I suspect many apolytoners hate them because knights are as good and twice as fast. However, like most units, there is a time and place for them in almost any game.

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"There is no fortress impregnable to an ass laden with gold."
-Philip of Macedon

	09-05-2001 02:14									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm to lazy to look in the rules.txt but dont legion's have better fire power and hitpoints then elephants. Anyway I have found them efficient in the early game for wiping out a close rival or two. The 2 defense is also good imo when you come upon those accursed horseman who will wipe out your elephants $#!@

	09-05-2001 02:17									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If I've learnt one thing from playing mp, its that the trireme is one of the most useful units. Many games have been won or lost due to a suprise naval attack early in the game (triremes loaded with elephants + phalanxes/pikes). Legions are good, but I never use them, ususally I combine elephants and a good defensive unit to stay behind in the city after I've moved the elephants on. Plus their greater movement rate (in 2x move and on roads especially) lets them get to inland cities much quicker than legions. With legions I simply wouldn't get the same element of suprise, which is very important in a successful attack.

	09-05-2001 03:34									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Nope. HP and FP are both 1 for both legions and elephants.

Triremes help you meet other civs. Invaluable in many games.

	09-05-2001 04:16									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

i am not a fan of legions..... if they are caught in the open.... bye bye expensive unit..... their 2 def is misleading..... many times a horse can kick a legions ass in open terrain......

and a better way to attack would be with a legion protecting the catapult.
resulting in the legion withstanding the intial blow.... the cat attacking and then hopefull the legion taking the city and healing himself or attacking as well
or for the same price two phalanxs and a cat.... in case your attacked twice by the defender as you mosey up to the city preferably on good def terrain of course

Barb legions freak me out though

	09-05-2001 05:44									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Nothing worse than a barb legion roaming around the mountains near your cities in 3000 bc...