08-05-2001 09:45									#31
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

My AI opponents must be smarter than the average bear. While I do beat them with regularity, if I get a bad start in a game then I'm toast.

SG... I take it a PBEM game would take, theoritically, six times longer than a succession game? How would you generate the game to beging with? As a 'Hotseat' game with seven players? If so, has this been done here at Apolyton? Do you see any interest in this among the members?

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Frodo lives!

	09-05-2001 22:34									#32
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have tried MP with a friend on the internet, but we had problems maintaining connections, with latency, and other bugs that cropped up, such as when my friend suddenly got the ability to move my triremes on his turn, and "forgot" to leave them adjacent to land afterwards. It was also difficult finding free blocks of time to play to suit us both, and actually finishing a game seemed highly unlikely. I guess MP requires amounts of free time and fanaticism I can not afford, but I still wish for a good way to play against human opponents, especially with many of the great players here, so maybe PBEM is the way.

As for PBEM, my own experience with PBM (before the internet) in other games such as chess, war games, and Diplomacy were quite enjoyable, very convenient to manage, and only took some patience, as each move took a week or more to exchange. At that time, I would often have 7 or 8 different PBM games going at one time, so never got bored waiting for moves. The quality of play was also very high, as each player could give their turn all the time they wanted before mailing it off.

With the "E" in PBM, moves can be exchanged must faster, making it very suitable for Civ II. I would also like to know the answer to kcbob's question about how the PBEM games are played, and would be interested in participating a few, but I think it would work best with just 2 human players in each game.

	09-05-2001 23:07									#34
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

"Anyone for PBEM" spells out the procedure pretty well. It boils down to: start an internet game, load a saved game, start game (with only you connected), pick your civ.

My experience with PBEM has been very positive. It takes a lot of patience, a lot of trust in your fellow players, and some careful setup to avoid AI interference in your civ. During each player's turn, all the other civs are controlled by the AI, so there are many opportunities for the AI to cause havoc.

Solo: a two player game has less strategy than a game with more players IMO. In a four player game, you have to watch your back while you're attacking one of the other players.

	10-05-2001 06:48									#35
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

drake, how else to support my habit, CivII. I keep trying to get the local junkies to join me in playing Civ II hoping to switch their addictions, but the best I can do so far is weekly Yahtzee marathons with a reformed cocaine user. It's a start. I know if I started MP I would not be able to stop at just 3-4 hours once a week, once I got hooked, so I resist the temptation. I appreciate the offer, though.

DaveV, thanks for your info about PBEM games. My preference for a 2-player game reflects my experience when comparing PBM Diplomacy (more than 2) with other 2-player PBM games. The Dip games were often bounced around among different magazines (also known by that catchy "zines" abbreviation), with players dropping in and out, and many never were completed. With skillful and reliable opponents, I found 2-player games to be very competitive and much simpler to organize, play and finish, but that's just my personal preference at the moment.

	10-05-2001 20:12									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

'La petite mort' is a very delightful way to translate 'orgasm' into french.
Maybe being destroyed by greedy ICSers is also some kind of 'petite mort'?

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aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

	10-05-2001 20:22									#40
	Got spare money?

Please, solo, what is Yahtzee?
(I'm no marathon runner and no cocaine user though, so it's perhaps useless to know).

	10-05-2001 20:23									#41
	Remove this text

Another factor in favor of SP is cost. As a congenital miser, it would kill me to be paying by the minute for MP. All of the time spent on waiting for the game to start, chatting, bathroom breaks and disconnects that I shrug off now would be costing me money, and the meter in my head would be running the whole time. PBEM is a good alternative in this respect, also, since you only have to connect to transfer the save file.

	10-05-2001 20:58									#42
	Tired of ads?

I have a cable modem (which is a flat rate of 39.95 a month), so the more I play, the cheaper it is per minute.

Any excuse is a good excuse.

RAH
Of course, my daughter makes sure we get our money's worth every month through on-line chatting.

	11-05-2001 09:23									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

La Fayette, Yahtzee is a game played with 5 dice, where you get points for rolling different combinations. There is some strategy to it, but you don't have to dig too deep into the gray matter to figure out the probabilities. Talking to the dice seems to influence the results more, but I am still researching this. The game is made by Milton Bradley, who also put out an excellent game called Axis & Allies, which on first appearance seemed childish, since you are given little plastic replicas of soldiers, ships, tanks and planes to push around the game board, but the dynamics were so well designed and balanced that it became a favorite for me and other lovers of wargames.

drake, maybe in Civ III we will be able to build junkie units and will have bags of dope on the commodity list. This would add some realism to the game.
[This message has been edited by solo (edited May 10, 2001).]

	11-05-2001 09:26									#44
	Suffering from ads?

Thanks solo, but I knew that Lafayette is the one that asked

	11-05-2001 09:32									#45
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

just noticed my error after posting, but you beat me to it drake! are you sure you are not on something yourself?

	10-05-2001 23:36									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I betcha the overwhelming majority of Civ II players are SPs.

I heard that for a real-time strategy game like Age of Kings, the ratio is something like 10 SPs for every 1 MP. Real time strategy games are more geared towards a multi-player environment than a turn-based game like Civilization, so I would infer that the ratio of SPs vs MPs for Civ II is much greater than 10 to 1.

We could always do a poll at Apolyton but the sampling would be far from repreentative.

Does anyone happen to know if Civ II's publisher has done any marketing studies on the ratio of SPs vs MPs?