20-09-2001 01:34									#31
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Slave holder- should that make any difference?
He was one of the most adamant on the Council that Slavery should end, and when he died, all his slaves were freed.

red_jon- you have some strange definition of attractive

	20-09-2001 02:02									#32
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Slaveholding doesn't make any difference. Washington and Franklin were also slaveholders, and we shouldn't think much less of them. Why shouldn't we do the same for Jefferson?

Bob- Cleveland? You mean Grover Cleveland, right? Um, what exactly did he do? Though I agree about TR...

	20-09-2001 06:30									#33
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America-FDR, Lincoln, Huey Long, or even perhaps Eugene Debs

Merely joshing on those last two of course.

I would also change France to Napoleon or Louis XIV

For the most part though, I think Firaxis has made some excellent choices.

	22-09-2001 03:20									#34
	Re: Firaxis, give the public what they want!! Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by red_jon England/Britain - Winston Churchill instead of Elizabeth I. He is much more widely recognised as a great leader by the British. Russia - Joseph Stalin instead of Cat the great. C'mon, he was the leader in Civ1. Well, if you won't include him as he isn't PC, then at least have Lenin. France - Napolean Who wants Joan of bloody Arc? Napolean is much more famous... Germany - Adolf Hitler OK, REALLY not PC, but when you hear the words 'German leader' who do you think of? I rest my case... Greece - Alexander NOT THE WUSSY BLOKE IN THE PIC. Firaxis are being un-PC here as he was supposed to be gay so they haven't made him macho anymore...

England: I'd like one of the medieavel kings, Alfred smth or maybe Richard Lionheart. Churchill isn't that appropriate since the civ is the English, not the British.

Russia: I'd go for Peter the Great.

France: Agree. Napoleon Bonaparte is 1000x better than miss d'Arc.

Germany: der Führer is just to un-PC, and anyway Bismarck is a better choice (he united Germany).

Greece: Alexander. Don't know if he was gay, but he did have a "unique" relationship with his horses...

	22-09-2001 03:28									#35
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You forgot one choice: No Leaders at all

Question. How many of you changed the leader's name of your civ to your own name or handle? That right there invalidates this whole leaders nonsense.

One of the very first thing I will do when I study the rules.txt file (or whatever it's going to be called) is how to remove leader animations altogether. Makes this kind of discussion pointless and removes any controversies.

	22-09-2001 03:36									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark Question. How many of you changed the leader's name of your civ to your own name or handle? That right there invalidates this whole leaders nonsense.

No it doesn't. Even if I play as Banana-Jack of the Persians, I might prefer playing against Napoleon and Lenin, not Jeanne d'Arc and Cath the G.

	22-09-2001 21:44									#37
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What do you mean by "PC?"

	22-09-2001 23:25									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Melios What do you mean by "PC?"

"Politically Correct".

	23-09-2001 01:03									#39
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You know what would be cool in multiplayer Civ (when it eventually comes out. .. *sigh*) is if you can put in your own portrait that the other human players will see. For example, you could put in a picture of a rabbit with a pancake on its head instead of montezuma. Kind of like the avatars we have here on Apolyton. So I could use my avatar I have now and name myself Rasputin and be the leader of the Russian civ. I think that would be cool and not to much trouble to implement. . . I thiiiink. . .