13-05-2001 09:44									#1
	Interesting AI use of Naval Fleets Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

'Sup guys,

I remembered a game I had going awhile back that was quite fun and which had a very interesting use of ship fleets or mini-convoys by the AI Zulus.

Large Real World Map... Dunno diff level, prolly fairly easy. No random start locations.
I wanted to wait till the Modern times and unleash a full sacale modern assault on some highly developed Civ. Any excellent game developed.

As the Americans, I had relative safety for the entirety of the game, allow me to perfectionize a nice little war machine in the US. I kept abrest of developments abroad and tried to keep the balance of power by gifting techs and units to nations losing wars. First the Germans were defeated by the British of all Civs, and the Brits began to spread across all of Europe. The Russians, who were also warring with the Germans, were on the losing end of things and were reduced to a few cities up 'round the Leningrad area. All this time, the Mongols were spreading there Civ across Asia to become a land powerhouse, constantly battling with the Russians in the Urals area and eventually the Brits as the expanded through Greece(these were mostly air battles fought over the Caspian). The Zulus had taken out the Egyptians early and had a monopoly on the entirety of Africa.

The Egyptians became the Aztecs, and very nice trading partners for my Civ.

Here's where it gets fun. As the Zulus made their way across the Saini Peninsula, they spread quickly through the Middle East and through to India. Please note that now we have the British heading into the Middle East via Greece, The Mongols steamrolling through Asia, currently at the Caspian Sea, looking to mix it up with anyone. The Zulus are expanding east through Southern Asia only to eventually run into the heart of the Mongol Empire, and they are also spreading north from the Middle East threatening the Brits and the Russians. The Middle East was very hot property indeed. I had been fueling Russian resitance, for they were being bombed by the Zulus and run over by the Mongols. I managed to get the Brits and Russians to ally with me against the Zulus, and then I struck with a big ol' task force. Right past the Zulus through the Med, I was able to sneak my seaborne forces which promptly occupied all of what is today Israel, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan etc...all the way up to the Caspian. I new this would only achiev a limmited goal of halting the Zulu advance, to buy time for Russia and give the Brits to room to opperate with. I've been sending troops over for awhile, but it is impossible to supply the area against the entire production power of the AI-railroaded Africa.

Now, here comes the reason for the thread.

I had been constantly patrolling the Atlantic for signs of an invasion. I had, at one point, managed to sink a few Zulu warships patrolling around S.America. I thought nothing of it. They had no idea where my ships had come from. What I had was a Naval Base at Havanna Cuba, where I would rehome any ships I built from the mainland. I also had an airbase their for bomber and cruise missle opperations in defense of any invasion. A bored destroyer crew got the okay to make another patroll out to the Southern Atlantic...when they spotted it... a Zulu Fleet steaming right for the US. A Battleship and Carrier full of cruise missles and Bombers were dispatched to stop them before they reached our shores. They were in the North Atlantic on their way to the Med. They were able to decimate the Zulu Fleet before it was a problem, but I wondered...

So I opened the cheat menu and looked to see the full makeup of the Zulu Taskforce:

3 Destroyers
1 Cruiser

2 Cruisers
1 AEGIS Cruiser
1 Battleship

2 Submarines
2 Battleships
1 Ironclad


They were bunched in 2 groups of 4 ships, and 1 group of 5 ships. All in a straight line, headed in one direction. Thats the scary thing, the current goto command for each and every ship read "Go to Havanna"!!! The ships were from various cities, so I take it the AI had to build them, and wait for the Fleet to be of desired size and then it sent the whole lot of them to Hvanna. I have never seen the AI so nasty in the ocean. Granted, I smashed them, because I prefer to have an overzelous defense, but I will give a round of applause to the AI on this one, they coulda intercepted a shipment of troops on their way to the Middle East, because by now I think I was doing my maritime shipping out of Florida. It would have meant months and months of production in the drink...
Too bad they didn't think to bring any land units with them though. That would have been a nice invasion escort, and a better attempt at Naval offense, but this one is right up there I think.

I have the save if anyone wants to give it a look.

FMK

[This message has been edited by Field Marshal Klesh (edited May 12, 2001).]

	13-05-2001 00:00									#2
	Got spare money?

Hehe.... perhaps the zulus were the real world Russians looking to put missles in Cuba...... did you impose Fidel to run your Cigar rolling factory down there

Were the Zulus or the Mongols more powerfull in the Eurasian-african landmasses.

	13-05-2001 20:14									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I want a full report on this forum at 09:00 tomorrow.
What happened to the Zulus and who won?
Imagine what would have happened if you wouldnt have enabled cheats.

	14-05-2001 12:30									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

FMK:

Ha! You think your Zulu AI are nasty on the oceans, you haven't seen how nasty the Amazon AI were in my most recent game. The freaks nuked three of my former Mongol cities and blasted two loaded-to-the-gills transports out of the water in a surprise attack. The Amazons died very soon thereafter, but it put a load of burrs in my plans to take them by surprise on my own terms.

So, no, your encounter with a rather decent AI intelligence isn't limited.

CYBERAmazon

(P.S. I've had AI fleets numbering in dozens of ships come my way. It doesn't help any that I've created a stealth transport — carries four units — that can't be detected easily .)

	14-05-2001 15:28									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Those subs must have been slowing the fleet down.

Would you say the stacking is random?

	14-05-2001 22:05									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

On another thread, I recently mentioned a well coordinated Viking invasion in a game I was playing. In this the Vikes took out a battleship and a cruiser I had on patrol. Then, on the next turn they hit my continent with three transportloads of forces. They were repelled, but not without city damage. They were the "allies" of Carthage, the nation I was engaged with much closer to the Viking homeland. This fleet appeared virtually "out of the blue" from the other side of Vikinghome. On occassion, the AI really isn't that bad if you let them prosper into modern times.

	15-05-2001 01:15									#8
	Remove this text

While I've never heard of a huge AI land attack (other than an endless line of tanks heading for one's borders), there have been a number of reports of massive naval attacks. One might couple this fact with the AI's tendency to make a one-ship naval bombardment on the same human city over and over again (even though the human built a coastal fortress and has a couple of high def units there). Does the AI choose a single coastal city target and send all it's warships there? If so, is it random when all the ships hit, or is the AI timing them?

Obviously there are fewer impediments (mountains, human units, zones of control, etc.) in the water so the AI might actually be able to time a concerted naval attack if no human ships were in the way (while the AI could not easily time a land attack). Or perhaps the AI is running it's coastal cities through build cycles of naval vs. land units, so the cycle of ship-building might, at random, in modern years, lead to a bunch of ships being built at just the right time in just the right places to converge in unison.

I'm still leaning towards the AI's massive production ability, the alignment of the planets, and the AI's targeting of a particular human coastal city creating these huge "seemingly intelligent" AI naval assaults, especially considering their rarity. However the idea of a timed AI naval assault is intriguing.

	15-05-2001 12:28									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I was recently impressed by the AI. I had 2 bombers out over the ocean, blasting his ships. Now a long time ago I modified cruise missiles to be able to intercept air units, but the AI never used them against anything but ships. So I wasn't too concerned when I put one bomber over my AEGIS cruiser.

The next thing I know, the Japanese had shot doen both of my bombers. With missiles. The AEGIS cruiser gave way to the bomber for defense. And with it, the cruiser & my transport full of 8 units.

AI 1, Theben 0.