18-09-2001 15:54									#1
	Other Rush-Build Tactics Put an end to popups!

I've been testing "Torture Mods" in several scenarios, and it's caused me to revisit rush-build tactics. one of the main changes of the mod is no supply crawlers or ships and no clean units. therefore, it's tougher to manage minerals for builds and rush-building is of more concern.

other than just paying energy, I usually have other bases crank out probes or colony pods to boost the productivity of the target base (usually to grab a SP faster). I disband the probes at the target base, which adds their minerals to the build. colony pods create more workers for extra min.

BTW, the Torture Mod also turns on a large penalty for switching projects. this avoids the SP mineral repository effect, where you build a SP you don't care about to store up min. when you get a SP you do want, you get to switch over without any penalty. it costs more now.

are there any other ideas out there?

	19-09-2001 00:43									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Going without crawlers seems to suggest a greater reliance on combinations of boreholes, condensors, hybrid forests, satellites and specialists and may result in a slower build-up as those things take longer to become available. Until these things kick in, its back to the basics; it makes the exact nature of your bases' terrain more important as you won't be able to import resources to make up for deficiencies in your base squares and may end up limiting pop growth. Makes those resource specials and high altitude rolling wet tiles look really good.

Cashing in probes and CPs sounds just like turning in crawlers to me (although I couldn't say for sure that you get the same trade in value), so it could be contrary to your own no-crawler rule, but that would be for you to say.

As for turning in crawlers in general, especially those whose value has been jacked up by upgrading, I find that practice a bit close to the edge viz-a-viz the Spirit of the Game*.


* Note - Comments about the Spirit of the Game reflect the opinion of the poster only; they should not be taken to be the official Spirit of the Game policy of this site.

	19-09-2001 00:46									#3
	Got spare money?

On the design side: Because there is no controlling the ability to disband a unit for 1/2 minerals, penalizing rush-building only adds to the strength of the disband strategy. Still, if the game is modified to make minerals hard to come by, rush-building is a good area to increase the difficulty. Thus, adding 'HURRY, 200' to each faction and/or changing the mineral multiplier from 10 to say 15 would greatly impede rush-building and/or building.

On the player side, a visit to Mari One's discussion of rush-building from long ago, or paying close attention to the rush-build calculator available at ?? one of the fan-sites helps.

-Smack

	19-09-2001 16:06									#4
	Got spare money?

I'm flattered that my fame is still surviving!
Fitz's summarization of Hurry thread

Note, that the relevance of those threads was only about hurrying units

I realize that I never made available then my simple xls table for that.
I don't have it here @work, I'll upload it this evening.
Hey, now I can even *attach* it!

Note, I have almost no interest in mods, I responded here only because I had been cited...

I'd be interested in discussing the issue ofc upgraded crawlers, but this deserves another thread (or has it been already discussed in the past?)

	22-09-2001 18:20									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

Sorry if it took me some time to organise myself.

I don't know about a rush-build calculator hosted elsewhere, but there's really little into it:
two input variables, and a result.
A trivial table makes it, you just have to know the formula used by the game, and the way costs are rounded.

I don't know how much it's in topic, but as self-limitations and possible cheats have been hinted at, I'd like to point out a thing that puzzels many.

As the more minerals you miss the more each single mineral costs (buying 5 minerals out of 30 missing is much more costly than buying the same 5 minerals out of 10), the cost of a partial hurry can be influenced by the SE Industry setting.
Taking advantage of this using a temporary setting is as much a cheat as using it for sparing on Projects.
If for some reason you're not running Planned and/or Wealth, when you want to hurry a unit you could switch to them, buy the required number of minerals for the origina partial hurry at a lower price, then switch back to your SE getting the upheaval refund...

Attachment: smac hurry table.zip
This has been downloaded 19 time(s).