16-03-2000 20:13									#1
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It seems many of you can build independent settlers. I have never thought it possible, how do you do this? Do you build a city next to another civ's and start pumping settlers or what? Please someone let me in on it. I'm sure i can put it to good use

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ugh crud, why won't they fall prey to my Machiavellian schemes?

	16-03-2000 20:36									#2
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Besides the non settlers you get from huts, they are easy to build.
Put a city down closer to another civ than any of your cities. Before the city can go to two population, quick build the settler and in the process, disband the city. This will create a non settler as long as another civ has a city closer to the disbanded city than any of yours. Good luck!

	16-03-2000 21:13									#3
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From reading other threads, someone mentioned that you can't disband a city at the lower levels. Since Ming and I never really played the lower levels, we can't validate that.

RAH

	16-03-2000 21:54									#4
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A third possibility is to buy a settler/engineer at some point closer to a city owned by another than any of your cities. Be warned - they are disproportionately expensive.

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	17-03-2000 10:17									#5
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Scouse Gits... you mean "bribe" the settler... right

And yes, they can get VERY expensive!

	17-03-2000 10:35									#6
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Bribing a settler costs double the amount of an ordinary 40 shiled unit. Very expensive.

	17-03-2000 06:12									#7
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In OCC games I often bribe a settler (or 2) to get a "none". It's cheaper when they are farther from their capital.

	17-03-2000 15:16									#8
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Sorry - of course I mean bribe rather than buy - it's just that my fundamentalist outlook regards the entire map as a shop window from which I can buy anything that takes my fancy - elolwthnotlfpapl (evil laugh out loud with the nail of the little finger pressed against pursed lips)

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	17-03-2000 23:55									#9
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can we have an acronym for that too or perhaps a smilie ELOL @ SCOUSEGITS

	18-03-2000 08:42									#10
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none settlers... I dont see how this is any less of a cheat than bomber stacking.

	18-03-2000 10:00									#11
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I don't disband any cities, I like all my cities.

	18-03-2000 23:23									#12
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I, too, like all of my cities (since I only build 10-12 of them), but I have had situations where I had to disband. I was approaching a peninsula with a settler from the NE with the SW still dark. I built a city with 2 specials and then in the city view, I saw two white squares. There was an enemy city 2 squares away in a better spot. I rush-built a few units in my new city, took over the enemy city and then disbanded my original city.

	19-03-2000 06:20									#13
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Please clarify MWHC.
Are you saying you think it's a cheat if you get an advanced tribe from a hut (that never seem to optimize surrounding terrain) to build a settler and move the city one or two squares to take advantage of specials?

Or are you saying that you don't consider stacked bombers a cheat either. If it's this one, I agree with you. (which is normally a moot point in MP because nukes get developed near the same time.)

RAH
Lord of the Ferrets

	21-03-2000 01:12									#14
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you can't disband cities in the original civ 2 if you are in chefthain

if the city you disband is more than 1 screen frome any of your cities, and you haven't discovered many civs, the settler will probably be 'NONE'

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Alien Infiltrate

	21-03-2000 03:30									#15
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are you sure about that HsFB...... i was sure it was based on being closer to the ai like none troops.... i would think the same formula/principle would apply

	17-05-2001 02:52									#17
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yes

	18-05-2001 09:35									#19
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My Wife Hates CIV,

While NON settlers (and other NON units) might not have been a wise addition to the game, they were definitely intended by the designers. (I'll agree that disbanding cities solely to get NON settlers, allowing one's cities to be conquered solely to get NON partisans, and setting up diplomat NON "recruiting stations" near barb hot spots/cities were not intended.)

I assume the designers wanted to reduce the chance that a hut unit would immediately be disbanded due to lack of shield support, or that a hut nomad would starve some distant border city. These bad consequences of a hut unit (or worse yet a unit you just paid good money for in a bribe) could also include city (or even civ-wide) disorder if you're in a representative government. In all these cases being "far away" from any border city means that the bad consequences can't easily be rectified by disbanding in or joining a nearby city. The designers probably should have had the unit be supported by the nearest of your cities that had enough shields and wouldn't starve or go into disorder.

Bomber stacking is an unfortunate game mechanic side effect of not allowing air units to fly "above" foreign units on the same square. Hopefully Civ3 will allow "international" stacking. Then your air units could fly over a land-based blockade (or run under a squadron of bombers). This would be especially cool for allied nations. An English pikeman could help defend an American catapult.


AkwaticDudeCity & Caligastia,

Be warned that the game's counting of spaces is probably not how you would count spaces. I can't remember the formula, but it was something crazy like the greater of the x or y distance plus half the remaining rectilinear (x or y) distance.

	18-05-2001 09:57									#20
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MWHC, how can a designed concept be a "cheat?" If you pop a forest hut and get a settler, he will ne a "none" unit, by DESIGN. Thus, their existence is clearly intended. How they are derived now becomes the point of discussion. Edward discussed the hesitancies there, but their existance cannot be seen as a "cheat."

Edward, is that last paragraph an elaborate spoof of the rest of us, or do you think it really explains distance measuring?

	18-05-2001 02:24									#21
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"I assume the designers wanted to reduce the chance that a hut unit would immediately be disbanded due to lack of shield support, or that a hut nomad would starve some distant border city."


I doubt that. I suspect the algorythm was simply to home to nearest city; but when they realized nearest city was different tribe found that it crashed or had bizarre results. Rather than keep running algorythm recursively until hut popping tribe found ~(assuming there is one; and there is often not at beginning for skilled mercenaries); it was easier to make settler or skilled mercenaries a None unit.

	18-05-2001 02:27									#22
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~ = city

corruption - no courthouse on internet

	18-05-2001 03:38									#23
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EdwardTKing,

Your "easy to program" explanation sounds very plausible. I think you're right.


Blaupanzer,

No offense meant! Upon re-reading, my "formula" does sound like a lot of nonsense. While I only vaguely remembered a couple discussions on the game's distance calculation I did remember that none of the proposed answers were a simple counting of squares along a path (counting squares "as the bomber flies" so-to-speak). I guess I was trying to say "Hey. It ain't as easy as countin' squares."

You've gotten me off my lazy butt and I've tracked down an answer from the wonderful Great Library.
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/HTML/001678.html?36
This entry is for city bribing, but I think it works for determining closest cities as well. My vaguely remembered rambling was meant to be the 4.32 method.

quote: Way to measure distance between a unit and the capital... 4.31 Imagine Civ2-map turned by 45 degrees. Then you see that map is a simple grid of squares. Then use 4.32 or 4.33 (both are equal). 4.32 Take the "rectangle" defined by the position of the unit and the position of the city (all sides of rectangle are built by squares connected by lines, not by by edges). [comment]comment by me, Edward - I think he means all sides of the rectangle are formed from squares which share a side, not squares that merely touch at a corner.[/comment] distance = (length of longer side of rectangle) + 0.5 * (length of shorter side of rectangle) Only integer part of distance is considered. 4.33 Take the "rhomboid" defined by the position of the unit and the position of the city (two sides of rhomboid are built by squares connected by lines ("straight sides" ), other two sides are built by squares connected by edges ("diagonal sides" ); note: the rhomboid is included in the rectangle that came up in 4.33). distance = (length of straight side of rhomboid) + 1.5 * (length of diagonal side of rhomboid) . Only integer part of distance is considered. 4.35 This method of measuring the distance between two squares is valid for all Civilization.

	18-05-2001 19:17									#24
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Edward, thanks both for the clarification and the agreement that it did sound a little off-the-wall the first time. :-) LOL