18-05-2001 09:45									#31
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Last night, I landed a NON settler (found as a nomad) on what turned out to be a 5 square island. In landing, he exposed a hut. So I landed my two movement unit but did not pop the hut that turn. Next turn, I used the two movement unit to pop the forest hut. Second nomad. This on a five-square island. Not saying this result isn't less likely based on the received conventional wisdom, but ... Situation: Large world, 7 civ, raging, standard rules, I never modify anything. This is fourth and fifth nomads in this one game.

	18-05-2001 18:27									#32
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Well, EOL's case, plus Blaupanzer's and now your (multiple) cases, Rah, seem conclusive.

Myth it is.

Something is required to explain the lack of nomads on the home continent if you retain a NONE settler compared to the regularity with which they appear if you use both settlers to found. But the explanation is plainly not a rule limiting the number of NONE settlers to one per landmass.

	18-05-2001 18:48									#33
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To put a gentler spin on it, the formula could still consider the presence of other NONs without precluding a new nomad. Some decreased percentage chance or somesuch. That would explain earlier sense of the group.

Got an advanced tribe with 3 cit, temple, marketplace, and library last night while I was still researching Invention. Since I have MP, I know none of the other civs had Invention already. So, whatever the trigger is that makes advanced tribes have more than one cit and have improvements, it is NOT the discovery of Invention. Anyone have any other ideas?

	18-05-2001 20:02									#34
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I always thought it was based on the year. (sometime around 1000 A.D.)
but I didn't test it rigorously enough, and based on what I've seen posted, it's not supported.

RAH

	18-05-2001 20:26									#35
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Blaupanzer,

Did you have Republic yet? I've never seen an improved advanced tribe before Republic.

Another idea to consider is contact with all the AI being a trigger. How long did you have MP before that tribe turned up?
[This message has been edited by solo (edited May 18, 2001).]

	19-05-2001 09:45									#36
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Hmmm. Two promising notions gone in one thread! Damn.

Still, I suppose clearing away the myths has some value.

The appearance of the developed advanced tribes very shortly after I got Invention was striking in the two or three games that led me to propose that trigger, and then it still seemed to be working in the next game when they started to appear strikingly soon after a rival got it.

And a trade off to make up for losing the chance of advances from huts seemed intuitively right.

Last lingering thought, I wonder if it could be the point at which someone starts researching Invention that is the trigger? That pre-condition seems to be met in your game, solo.

Somehow doesn't seem so likely a trigger, though.

Anyway, experience so far suggests I may leave Invention higher on my research priorities than it used to be (at least when intending early representational government). The loss of advances from huts remains a drawback but, even without the suggested counterbalance, if you can rely on getting to Gunpowder quicker you can (maybe) defer building supported defenders to supplement your hut units until Musketeers are available. Of course you get some nasty accidents if you leave many cities wholly undefended but a diplo or two plus some cash staves off some; bribing back lost cities copes with others and the occasional handy barb city can be quite a boon sometimes too.

	18-05-2001 23:06									#37
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Just a thought - there are presedents in this game for two prerequisites for some feature - could we be looking for Engineering && Lieracy, perhaps held by differing civs??

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