19-09-2001 18:06									#1
	Submissive pacts: Enter the AD-FREE zone

What's the chance of a submissive pact brother cancelling their pact? Is it possible?

What happens to them if you throw a nuke?

	19-09-2001 18:23									#2
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It's been my experience that if you toss a PB, EVERYBODY turns on you...including submissives.

OTOH, if you keep your submissives well-fed on tech and gift bases (to bolster the global economy), you'll never see a problem....

-=Vel=-

	19-09-2001 18:35									#3
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REPEAL the UN charts!

	19-09-2001 18:45									#4
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I don't know that anyone's deduced the formula exactly, but we do know that your submissive's attitude toward you directly contributes to the chance that they will cancel the pact. Certainly one must also factor in: being framed, outside diplomatic pressure, or internal strategic pressure that your vassal state might incur. I've never ever had a magnanimous submissive vassal cancel a pact, but I sure have had magnanimous pactmates cancel, or demand something or cancel a pact. It's easy to keep an eye on their attitudes in the faction profile option of the control-click (right-click PC?) menu in the Commlinks. As Vel's said, keep them happy and you'll have no problems. The flipside is that if you terrorize them, ignore them, allow them to develop hostile attitudes, they will probably cancel....wouldn't you?

-Smack

	19-09-2001 22:01									#5
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The most common way for a submissive to kill the pact is by accidental attack, He bombards or attacks a stack of you and someone else that he has vendetta with, in case of artillery this attacks every one, in case of attack the unit visable to him on top the stack is enemy but often yours has a higher defense value.

	20-09-2001 03:00									#6
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That's interesting... I've never had a submissive pact cancelled except by launching a PB without repealing the charter.

I like to get the factions around me in submissive pacts then give them their bases back and give them all my tech. It keeps me from having to micro-manage their crappy little bases in the midgame, it gets me a lot of commerce income, and it gives a buffer between myself and enemies.

I say this just to point out that I quite regularly have two or three factions in submissive pacts before I transcend, and I would think I would've seen one cancel the pact. It's not like I always try to keep Yang happy when I've got him sub. pacted, and he's always pissed when I'm running demo.

I like playing the Spartans / Pirates / Gaians mostly, and a lot of times I'll give the University most of the bases I conquer and just let them be my research slaves. They'll generally have several times as many bases as I do, and if they wanted to conquer me they probably wouldn't have much trouble, but they never cancel the pact, and they'll always vote for me if I decide to end the game early with the "Unite behind me as supreme leader" option.

The only problem I ever had was accidentally giving Yang one of my main bases. Last time I was Santiago, I had just gotten Yang to submit, and was giving him back a ton of bases, and for some reason I thought Defiance Freehold sounded like a Hive base name, when it was actually a 25-pop production center of mine that had The Virtual World. Needless to say, most of my bases went into riots the next turn and Yang didn't want to give it back. Eventually the University stole the base from Yang, and I finally got Zarkov to give the base back after a lot of begging (I forget what finally worked).

If there's a chance of submissive pactmates turning on you, I might have to rethink that strategy.

	20-09-2001 16:28									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola The most common way for a submissive to kill the pact is by accidental attack, He bombards or attacks a stack of you and someone else that he has vendetta with, in case of artillery this attacks every one, in case of attack the unit visable to him on top the stack is enemy but often yours has a higher defense value.

Of course, the only way to be in that stack is to be a pactmate with the other faction also.

Therefore - be extra careful of submissives who at vendetta with each other. Ideally force them into ceasefire asap...