20-09-2001 11:15									#1
	No elevations? Support Apolyton

I just realized, that there doesn't seem to be any elevations like in SMAC, or am I mistaken? Well, yes there are those one-tile-mountains, but that seems so lame after SMAC. Does anybody know what happened to the elevations?

EDIT: As I started to look the history of this forum, I found out that there has been some threads concerning this. So if you are a newbie, go and look the history; if not, ignore this thread. Or don't. Do whatever you like, I won't disappear anyway

Last edited by aaglo on 20-09-2001 at 12:03

	20-09-2001 15:43									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I don't agree about your elevation problem, I think they look nice. Remember this not a 3D shooter! My opignon is the SMAC's way would not look nice in civilization since it was a bit to "squary" and was ok on an alien planet but not on earth with the many different vegetations.

Anyway I think that the grafics are fine, my main worry is the AI and in a lesser sence gameplay.

Last edited by Tjoepie on 20-09-2001 at 17:39

	20-09-2001 15:51									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yes, the current graphics look very nice and calm, but I was accustomed to the rolling landscapes of SMAC. At first the graphics of Civ3 looked a bit outdated to me, but maybe I get along with it

	20-09-2001 16:05									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

No worry on gameplay. Just on the AI...

	20-09-2001 16:16									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I'd rather not have the planet looks like a series of small bumps and dimples, thanks.

The elevation that SMAC had - in practice - was OK, but graphicly, it stunk. and it would be more or less pointless in civ2 where you aren't going to have settlers filling in the ocean(that could be simulated with out elevation, anyways... though not aswell), or solar collecters catching rays in the highlands.

	20-09-2001 17:27									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

In Civ one tile is a big portion of land - A mountain tile in civ does not represent a single mountain but a large area of mountainious terrain.
In SMAC the world seemed so small because you could put several big cities on the side of a giant mountain, whole continents often consisted of only a few mountains and a valley or two. It was allright I guess because this was an alien planet but with earth or an earthlike planet this simply won't work!

If you want elevation in terrain go play something like SimCity where the entire map only covers a city!!

	20-09-2001 17:47									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Solver No worry on gameplay. Just on the AI...

Yep.

As for the map, It's true: like aaglo I didn't find so far the SMACx beautiful "rolling landscapes" I really like. However it's Civ, with its traditional units and an earthian "flat terrain" at first not impressive, but on second thought I find the mountains and river design well defined. A real mountain is not always "round", isn't it?

	20-09-2001 18:22									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by aaglo I just realized, that there doesn't seem to be any elevations like in SMAC, or am I mistaken? Well, yes there are those one-tile-mountains, but that seems so lame after SMAC.

Well, I dont know about wavy SMAC-elevations in Civ-3, but I DO agree that the current map looks boringly flat. Personally, I would have prefered a simplified architectual 3D-landscape look, with few (only 4) and small (only about 20-25% of one tile) level-differences.

- Level 1: Deep ocean
- Level 2: shallow ocean
- Level 3: Shore, lowland (support all terrain-types)
- Level 4: plateau, highland (support all, except djungle & swamp)

Sea & river both on level 3-4, but minus 0.5 level. The water should be bluish semi-transparent so one can see any sea/river/ocean indentations. Or if not above - at least letting the landarea raise itself somewhat from the ocean-level. Sadly, they had gone for a 100% flat map, there grotesquely overproportional mountains alone represents the supposed 3D-look. It all too late to change now though.

	20-09-2001 18:28									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

You'r right about the water areas being too flat without sence of depth but I think the land area doesn't look too bad.
On an alien planet I agree the SMAC elevation system did the job, but it would look rediculous on earth if you ask me.
Altough if another intermediate step could be found that would be great, but all this talk is way too late for civ3, maybe civ4?

	20-09-2001 18:52									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Also the SMAC system just can't have a sharp elevation changes. You just couldn't imitate something like Himalaya.

	20-09-2001 20:48									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I hated the SMAC terrain so much... it was ugly ugly ugly... I much prefer the way Civ3 is looking.

I can't believe I'm admitting this but the graphics for SMAC were so ugly I didn't buy the game until it was only $5- normally I don't let graphics iterfere w/gameplay to that extent but Red and brown and interlaced-looking- and BORING MAPS!!!!! ugh.......

	20-09-2001 21:16									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by dearmad I hated the SMAC terrain so much... it was ugly ugly ugly... I much prefer the way Civ3 is looking. I can't believe I'm admitting this but the graphics for SMAC were so ugly I didn't buy the game until it was only $5- normally I don't let graphics iterfere w/gameplay to that extent but Red and brown and interlaced-looking- and BORING MAPS!!!!! ugh.......

I agree, the graphics where one of the only things keeping SMAC from being great instead of good.

	21-09-2001 00:25									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Ugh, SMAC was so ugly I couldn't play for more than a couple weeks. I hate to admit graphics can affect me that way, but they sure did in that case.

	21-09-2001 02:59									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

well, they said on mountains and hills, units get a father range of sight, so thats kind of a higher terrain bonus there...

and didnt someone say that trimeres can only go on shores, and Caravels only on seas, and the lightbumps caravels to be able to go on Oceans? i'm at work right now but i'll look for that thread when i get home...

	21-09-2001 03:54									#15
	Suffering from ads?

I'd like to see an elevation-based map, since this is purely a graphical issue and not a gameplay issue, all you anti-realists can't complain if I say I want this part of the game more realistic looking. NYAH NYAH NYAH NYAH!!!!



Uber r0x0rz!!

	21-09-2001 03:56									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

oh yea.

i r0x0r j00r b0x0r wif my 1337 d3b14n b0x0r.

ph33r!

	21-09-2001 04:12									#17
	Support Apolyton

LOL

	21-09-2001 04:35									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You poor poor fools . One of the satisfactions of playing SMAC was terraforming the ugly alien landscape into an earthlike one with forests, farms, mines magtubes etc . I suspect the default gamma is a tad low, and should be raised a little to make the terrain a little brighter.

Decent 3D terrain could be made, with something akin to the Settlers, but it would require a heap more CPU time, and I'm hoping the Civ3 team is making atleast some effort to keep framerates up when the map is smothered with hundreds of cities, units, trade routes, terrain improvments, city workers. 3D terrain is an excellent way to not achieve that goal. Also, while 3D terrain may be awfully pretty, it wouldn't really add any gameplay value.

	21-09-2001 04:52									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

i only got the demo to smac and decided i didn't like it, and one of the worst things was the terrain.. ugh!

	21-09-2001 08:54									#20
	Support Apolyton

Ralph-
Yes I found the thread where you mentioned that 4-level terrain. The Idea is quite good, it's like a mixture of Civ and SMAC.

Fiil-
You mentioned about "SMAC-world seems so small, because you can put several cities in one mountain." Did it never accur to you that the mountains in alien world may be very huge or otherwise different. But then again, Earth is not an alien world, so you have a point in there.

Alltogether it seems that most of the posters here seem to be strongly against SMACish rolling mountainscapes. And we have seen plenty of screenshots from the new Civ3, so maybe most of the posters here are satisfied with the current situation.

	21-09-2001 18:16									#21
	Tired of ads?

i think the reason there are complaints about civ3 grafx is the way its so flat with dimople mountains instad of civ2 mountain ranges. the civ 3 one IMHO are quite groovy at first but also flat, but i dont care, i just loe the game improvement like resorses and diplomatioc trading

and no caravans!!!
caravans =
civ 3=

	21-09-2001 18:29									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have the feeling for some time now that some civers against SMACx features ( graphics or not ) are generally historical-addicts who may have some difficulties to adapt to a sci-fi scenario. Sometimes in the past they have complained about the "bizarre" tech tree, because they are naturally fonded to what science has already produced. They are très pied-à-terre . I respect that, but there's no reason for them to despise a great game they haven't really tried... Just want to say that I was a Civ2 addict , and still an AC addict, and both are landmark games having their distinct charm.

	21-09-2001 18:34									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Master Marcus I have the feeling for some time now that some civers against SMACx features ( graphics or not ) are generally historical-addicts who may have some difficulties to adapt to a sci-fi scenario. Sometimes in the past they have complained about the "bizarre" tech tree, because they are naturally fonded to what science has already produced. They are très pied-à-terre . I respect that, but there's no reason for them to despise a great game they haven't really tried... Just want to say that I was a Civ2 addict , and still an AC addict, and both are landmark games having their distinct charm.

I liked SMAC, but the ugly graphics and lack of good replay value sort of wrecked it for me, I still think it's a good game though.

Graphics are usually not a problem for me, but sometimes when they are just plain bad it bugs me. The only other game that has graphics that really bugs me is heroes of might and magic 3... the map graphics in that are just so horrible, especially when compaired the HoMM2.

	21-09-2001 18:34									#24
	Support Apolyton

Lets face it. The graphics off SMAC was the worst ever seen and I normally dont give a **** about graphic. In SMAC the world looked like something you could find in a public toilet.... you litarally had to squeese your eyeballs out to see exactly what you were looking at

The most important thing with graphics is that its crisp and clear, like in civ2.

	21-09-2001 18:49									#25
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Master Marcus I have the feeling for some time now that some civers against SMACx features ( graphics or not ) are generally historical-addicts who may have some difficulties to adapt to a sci-fi scenario.

You're wrong in my case I like SMAC a lot - well not as much as Civ2 but still a lot. And I actually liked the idea of different elevations in SMAC I just don't think this will ever work in Civ! (Reasons: See my last post).

	21-09-2001 20:25									#26
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

im not sure i like the "great leader" solution to the old "caravan add to wonder" option.

i have to sacrifice a "great leader", possibly a blessing to warmongers like myself, to speed up a wonder?

it was always fun in multiplayer games to have 30 caravans waiting for invention

	21-09-2001 20:49									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

From a relistic standpoint, SMAC actually does a good job of conveying an alien world...

However, it wasn't the color/texture of the SMAC terrain that bothers me so much as it is the fact that elevated tiles look more like slivers rather than squares, and when you have a cluster of units, cities and improvements on the slope of a mountain, it bacame hard to select and differentiate what you had on each tile.