20-05-2001 12:32									#1
	Need some economic advice. Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

In my last several starts, I have gotten locations that did not look too bad, but in which I could never manage any real expansion. Two of the times I was stuck with several rounds of not enough taxes, and not enough people tu turn into tax collectors. As a result, I would end up going into the first millenium AD with very klittle science, and only two or three cities to my name, while the AI has all the stuff, the Lighthouse, Navigation, Gunpowder, etc.

At this point, I decide the possibilities for learnign through a tough fight don't merit the hassle, and restart.

Anybody got any hints on how to start out?

	20-05-2001 16:36									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Build roads immediately - let a settler to build one or two roads before a city is founded.

	20-05-2001 17:57									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Try not to build improvements that aren't needed or can't pay for themselves early in the game - there's always something better to build instead.

EOL

	20-05-2001 19:12									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yes, I think people often builds libraries and marketplaces too soon.

	21-05-2001 03:00									#5
	Got spare money?

Don't build Marketplaces until you have at least 2 taxes.
Don't build Libraries until you have at least 3.

Try to avoid building colloseums, or Aqueducts until you need them....Ten cities with One of each cost 60 Gold/turn.

Build several starting cities by the Ocean, especially if there are whales.
Lotsa Money.

GET ADAM SMITHS!

Adam Smiths KICKS!

Lastly......

expand FIRST. Ten Size two cities, with no improvements are better than two six eight cities, with Many.

The Ten Size 2's will increase!

Also! Pave EVERYTHING ASAP! If it can be paves, pave it. If it can be mined, Mine it! If it can be irrigated, Irrigate it!

But especially pave everything....

Also! Make trade routes! Put three between each city. three trade Icons, per route, per city.
Ten cities.
3 trade/city.

300 trade/turn.

That adds up. 150 Gold/turn....

	21-05-2001 19:39									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

Jim W
IMO it is frustrating to restart.
You should not go on playing that way. Here are 2 ideas to avoid it:

Have you read the GL? Or at least a few threads that might prove interesting (such as 'the 3 arrows strategy' for example )?
Have you won several games at easier levels?

	22-05-2001 20:55									#7
	Support Apolyton

Infastructure........roads, irrigation, good city spots with good trade specials and lots and lots and lots of caravans.....

Well thats what I do anyway

	22-05-2001 22:23									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Indeed, caravans are the key to economic success! In the long run, the trade routes make you wealthier and more knowledgable. In the short term, you can use caravans to offset your deficit economy until you get things turned around. A caravan that collects 50g on delivery can keep your 10g deficit per turn economy afloat for five turns. Find some big value deliveries, and you can see the benefit. Keep delivering, eventually you'll crest the hill and be able to fill the coffers.

	23-05-2001 03:50									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

There is an old saying at apolyton...... it states.... build caravans until your blue in the face........ when you have built enough...... build more. Remember you can build as many food caravans as you like to rush build your wonders....... use the commodity caravans for other nations and the setting up of trade routes. Make sure you capital pumps out its three and send them to the first big ai city you can find especially if it is on another continent.

Check out the multi continent trade strategy. See if your capital demands or produces hides. This commodity can often be resent time and time again.

Remember not only do caravans give you an instant gold bonus, they are also matched in beaker (science) bonuses. Not too mention the continuing long term effects of extra trade arrows in your cities thus making improvements like markets , banks , stock echanges more profitable..... and also able to support improvements like temples , libraries etc......

If your building beside ocean squares.... harbours are a great investment..... especially if you build them just as you WLT*D ocean cities offset your caravan producing centres

dont build markets until you have at least four coins.... i usually wait until six to eight myself and don't build libraries until at least 6 -8 beakers from the city. Despite the above advice..... they really will drain you treasury faster than you can replenish it.

Connect cities with roads...... don't irrigate until after monarchy..... settlers are better to build roads with or to found a new city. Get those early cities out quickly and then make sure you have another group of settlers equal to the amount of cites to irrigate, build roads, mine specials etc.

Dont waste your money on defense..... warriors are a cheap martial law unit and with dips and the odd attacking unit you should be able to fend off even raging barbs.....if you lose a city just bribe it back....its yours so it will be dirt cheap.

Lastly keep building caravans.....as soon as commodities become free in your cities send out those new caravans to your friendliest trading partner or if you can to a rival who demands it

	23-05-2001 04:15									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

IMHO, at the beginning of the game - BUILD ROADS - this is the single best way to start placing gold into your coffers early.

	23-05-2001 08:22									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Jim, I always enjoy your posts, often for their self-deprecating humor. This is the first time I can remember your genuinely seeming in need of help. How could I resist?

If you really want to win a game, I suggest following DaveV's ICS strategy. To the letter. Dave recognized two of the fundamental truths of the game -- the best investment is usually a settler that can build a new city, because cities produce everything else, and the "extra" citizen advantage is more pronounced with small cities -- and he's really worked out the details to ensure that it works. Some of it seems counterintuitive, but just try it once and you'll be amazed. Against the AI, even I win handily now.

Some say that Paul's OCC strategy is an even easier way to win, but I've had a hard time with it. Easy to stay out in front in science, but hard to get so far in front that I can build a whole spaceship with one city before someone catches up. However, I suspect that an eight-cities strategy following mostly OCC strategy would be very powerful.

Some say the easiest way to win is to play on a small world, no restarts, and simply hunt everyone down and kill them with units from huts, without ever building a city at all. I've failed miserably at this, although I'm not sure it was on a small world, which I think makes a big difference.

Whatever your strategy, don't build any improvements for a long time. They're lousy investments until you're generating lots of trade and can afford to just buy them. Build units and, if you have fairly many cities, start on wonders really early.

Go to Monarchy ASAP.

Build roads.

Explore fast; meet people; enter villages. Put units on your boats.

Stay at peace unless you're ready to capture cities. The game is all about cities. Don't let the AI drain your resources if you're not going to get cities out of it.

Let us know how it goes.