22-09-2001 20:50									#1
	What's a little Genocide between allies... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I had a good idea for destroying cities. When you order a city to be destroyed, one population point should be destroyed per turn. This means that small cities can be easily eradicated, but large cities will take ages to destroy and so the enemy may have a chance to reclaim the city before it is wiped out.

There should be no limit on the city size that can be eradicated - New York could be destroyed, but it would take a very long time.

For example, the Aztecs conquer Paris, which is size 23. It takes the French 12 turns ro recapture the city, by which time it has been rediced to 11. Whilst a city is being 'genocided', it should not grow, nor build things, produce taxes or science.

With this feature, if you knew you could not hold on to an enemy city for a long time, you could at least damage it.

What do you lot think?

	22-09-2001 20:59									#2
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supposedly, once you take over a city, you can either destroy it or take it over, (see news item) i like your idea better, where it actualy takes a certain number of turns to eradicate it. Not so slowly though.. maybe 3-5 pop points per turn

	22-09-2001 21:03									#3
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Maybe the more units in a city the faster they can destroy it? One unit per pop point.

	22-09-2001 21:19									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I think red johns idea sounds good. perhaps 2 sizes a turn.

	22-09-2001 21:19									#5
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I dont like the idea jon.


But Genocide is optional. When I take over cities in CTP, I put all the workers as Merchants . Thus the city does not recieve any food and starves to death . But the gold they give me is usefull!!!

	22-09-2001 22:12									#6
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Sounds good Jon. Very realistic. I think it would also emphasise the gruesomness of genocide.

	22-09-2001 22:52									#7
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i agree with faded glorys ethnic-cleansing ways. i suppose red jon's idea is okay, but i like a fast solution to my problems, like nerve-stapling.

	22-09-2001 23:07									#8
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Saddam/FG's method is what I usually do, but it takes a while.

Perhaps the improvement 'concentration camps' could speed the process up, say by having 2 population points die per unit.

It's sadistic, but it's life.

	22-09-2001 23:11									#9
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your desgusting.

	22-09-2001 23:20									#10
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quote: Originally posted by DonJoel your desgusting.

Don't try to forget the past. It HAPPENED and still goes on today (Serbia).

	22-09-2001 23:31									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DonJoel your desgusting.

Oh, c'mon!

I doubt there is one civ player who has never tried to 'dispose of' a captured city. IT ISN'T REAL. The British used the camps during the Boer war and many nations have since.

	22-09-2001 23:39									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Col Bigspear Don't try to forget the past. It HAPPENED and still goes on today (Serbia).

Actually, NATO air strikes killed a considerably higher amount more than Milosevic did. The charges of ethnic cleansing were exaggerated.

	23-09-2001 04:28									#13
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Wow, well thought out idea I like it

	23-09-2001 04:41									#14
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A turn is approx. a year, right? Would it take decades to wipe out a city with 1,000,000 citizens? I don't think so. If you really want to you can just line them out and kill them. Small groups of resistance fighters do not make a single population point. Maybe a one turn delay between a city being wiped off the map so the owners have a slim chance of getting it back at best.

	23-09-2001 04:51									#15
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I agree with everything i've heard you recently say. I think the one year a turn creates some realism problems, but luckily, realism isn't worth sh*t. I agree that you can kill off a city in a year, and I also agree that, if you think about, it, a lot of things don't make sense because of the one turn a year. If you don't think about it, and enjoy the game for what it is, you don't go complaining about whether there should be a picture of a missile truck under a nuke. or some other useless thing like that. I hereby applaud Christantine The Great's rapid succession of good calls.

	23-09-2001 04:54									#16
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Yah, didn't think about that. Good call CtG

Are all turns one year...even in BC? Because if not, in the early stages of the game, it would be even longer to kill less people.

	23-09-2001 05:00									#17
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Thanks, guys. Those are going in my sig.

Orange, I just assumed that the most furious competition would be in the Modern era. You really don't need your enemies cities then so your choice would most likely be genocide. If I had to wait 20 turns for to kill a city then wiping out a city would be worthless. I'd probably lose 5 times over by then.

	23-09-2001 05:59									#18
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bah. i proposed that exact same idea back in the "disbanding a city" thread, 2 pop per turn.

but i dont like the "more units faster raze" thing. if you take over a city and fill it with 20 marines it dies in one turn

	23-09-2001 07:13									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Christantine The Great A turn is approx. a year, right? Would it take decades to wipe out a city with 1,000,000 citizens? I don't think so.

Most likely yes, even not decades then years. Before you get to kill 1/10 of the population the rest will turn against you. They have nothing to lose. They will die if they don't fight anyway.

	23-09-2001 10:03									#20
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This is a good idea (regardless of who's it is) but 2 pop per turn would be better. This idea may have some faults but I'm too tired to find any.

Edit:With that post I just became a King.

Last edited by TechWins on 23-09-2001 at 10:26

	23-09-2001 10:21									#21
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Genoside might be tough to do during fighting. A unit taking a city might have other things on its plate than killing farmer John, things like defending the city from counterattacks. In other words, no reducing or disbanding cities if there is still a unit of that cities nationality or an allied nationality adjacent.

However, the population might start fleeing, swelling nearby cities...and they might not be such happy citezens either. Call em 'refugee citizen points' or something. Takes a while to assimilate them and they are more prone to unrest, eat but don't work, that sort of thing.

	23-09-2001 17:38									#22
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I think that relocation is a better game idea than genocide.

If as the Germans you take a French size 20 city it would be very difficult to culturally assimilate all 20 Frenchman; and it would be equally difficult to kill all 20.. However if you could relocate a couple each turn to other cities the task would be made easier.

The benefit of this is that you retain the newly acquired population. It would also be easier to justify the destruction of a city in a couple of game turns when you are a democracy (i.e anit genocide in theory).

	23-09-2001 17:51									#23
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i can't believe he came up with a serious and good idea but he did. i think he's completely right it should take many turns to destroy a large city and its improvements

	23-09-2001 18:08									#24
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i too am in favor of this idea, however, in early-midway through the game, a turn spans many years, and it's not unreasonable to imagine an entire city being killed off in that amount of time. the same holds true for the modern era of the game, because a turn would presumably last a whole year, and with modern technology a city could be killed off that quickly

	23-09-2001 18:17									#25
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quote: Everybody who says that you should be able to do this and that in a turn because its a year is plain stupid and doesnt know **** about civ. Is it realistic that armor moves 3 squares in a year? Is it realistic that it takes 20 years for a modern ship to move around the world? No, but its fun. Btw, i dont think you should be able to destroy cities in a turn. the gameplay in especially multiplayer but also singleplayer would suffer.

this was quoted form a post by donjoel in the 'city capture options' forum. Although he says it a bit harshly, I agree with him cmplete ly.

	23-09-2001 18:18									#26
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i think it is a good idea ... it must work because it lasted through testing. IMHO, 5pop per turn sounds best. anyway, would u really want to destroy a valuable 23pop city???

	23-09-2001 18:26									#27
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Perhaps the improvement 'concentration camps' could speed the process up, say by having 2 population points die per unit.

Is there any way we can killfile members of this forum? Why do I have to subject myself to such stupidity?

	23-09-2001 19:10									#28
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or go CTPesque and make a "Genocider" unit

	23-09-2001 19:41									#29
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He would have a mustache and speak with a funny German accent...

	23-09-2001 19:44									#30
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vhe are here keel you.