23-09-2001 04:06									#1
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Black Cleopatra, now Montezuma in a suit? Are they purposely trying to offend people? I don't understand it.

Next they'll show us the English, with King Henry VIII in caveman attire.

	23-09-2001 04:10									#2
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they're trying to show how the leaders dress through the ages, and while it may not be right, I can also guarantee you that Cleopatra wasn't elizabeth taylor.

	23-09-2001 04:20									#3
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And the ruler of England isn't Henry VIII but Queen Elizabeth I

	23-09-2001 04:22									#4
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They show Abe in his traditional garb, and Queen Elizabeth in her traditional chalk white face and royal garments. Why should it be any different for other leaders who came to power at an early time period.

Yes, Cleopatra wasn't white, but she certainly wasn't as black as they made her.

	23-09-2001 04:23									#5
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Re-write history, isn't that one of the slogans? Montezuma in a suit, Caesar in tights, whatever, just go ahead and re-write history

I think the advertisement w/Gandhi strangling poor old Abe Lincoln is very funny, did anyone notice the pinky ring Abe is wearing? WTF is that about?

	23-09-2001 04:33									#6
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Orange:

1) They changed Cleo so she is now white.

2) I think you told me that you don't frequent this section so you probably missed this. Dan Magaha (he does all of this, you know) said he wanted to do something unexpected. The Aztecs were unexpected (people have been trying to predict the order of the CotW) and would you expect Monty in a suit?

And do you really expect everyone to keep their traditional garb all throughout history? If Montezuma survived until the modern ages do you think he would be wearing his golden headdress and loin cloth?

Next people will be complaining if the city style changes at all throughout the whole game...

	23-09-2001 04:40									#7
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Hey buddy

So why don't we see every leader decked out in Corporate attire?

If the leader is Montezuma, he should appear in the traditional Aztec dress. Just as Caesar appears in Roman whites, and the Greek leader (Alexander is it?) wears classic greek clothing.

So they did change Cleo? Thank Goodness!

Rewrite history - yes, but if you're going to name the leaders, have them look the part (they have the Iroqois leader in Native American dress!)

Yes, I wish I did visit Civ3 General more often I come back now because I want to see what I just paid 64 dollars for

Frankly, I'm a bit skeptical

	23-09-2001 04:46									#8
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And a Hi-o to you, too.

Well you are going to see the leaders in their traditional dress, when it's appropriate. You'll see Caesar, Monty, Alexander, etc. in their normal attire during ancient times. Joan, Liz, etc. in their's during the Middle Ages. Bismark, Abe etc. in their's during the Industrial era. Probably everyone will be in suits during the Modern era.

As I said, Mr. Magaha probably put a picture of Montezuma in a suit for a suprise. Don't have a heart attack. You will see him in a loin cloth (but do you really want to? ).

	23-09-2001 04:50									#9
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Haha...wait wait...

their dress changes depending on what age it is? Much the same way that the Civ 2 high council did?

	23-09-2001 04:54									#10
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Uh, yeah. Havnt' you seen the screenshots with Liz in a Doge-style robe?

I hear a big slap in the head coming.

	23-09-2001 15:04									#11
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I'd like to see Liz with a dog collar in the 1970s

Can you seduce Cleopatra?

	23-09-2001 18:04									#12
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i've seen a midevil picture of abe. he had some crazy war helmet or something on.

i thought the suit made him look even meaner. they're always warlike, i'm bettin they'll be around to harass the americans alot

	24-09-2001 00:04									#13
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Why does it matter how they look?

They are caricatures; there should be an option to turn off animations if you don't like it.

	24-09-2001 00:41									#14
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quote: Originally posted by orange If the leader is Montezuma, he should appear in the traditional Aztec dress. Just as Caesar appears in Roman whites, and the Greek leader (Alexander is it?) wears classic greek clothing.

So by "rewrite history" you want to make them look exactly like they did all the time, the some old pictures, the same old deeds...
The Aztecs, for instance, disappeared centuries before they could wear modern clothing. So it's fun to imagine the way they would look nowadays (you do agree they wouldn't wear traditional dresses, costumes or jaguar skins in the U.N. council, 2001 A.D.???...).
Don't worry, you'll have many chances of seeing them wear traditional clothes. It's just Firaxis' way of surprising us and showing what options we have when leading a civilization.

	25-09-2001 17:32									#15
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quote: Originally posted by isaac brock they're trying to show how the leaders dress through the ages, and while it may not be right, I can also guarantee you that Cleopatra wasn't Elizabeth Taylor.

You are right but Cleopatra was a Greek and not a black African. This sort of historical revisionism is repugnant! They are obviously either ignorant of history or they are trying to pander to certain ethnic group (and the truth be damned).

	25-09-2001 17:43									#16
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Yo Oerdin that's the truth.

	25-09-2001 23:26									#17
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If you checked the screenshot you can get from other sites you would already know that Cleopatra was changed to white weeks ago. I'll let you two go because you're newbies.

	26-09-2001 09:10									#18
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quote: Originally posted by orange Hey buddy So why don't we see every leader decked out in Corporate attire? If the leader is Montezuma, he should appear in the traditional Aztec dress. Just as Caesar appears in Roman whites, and the Greek leader (Alexander is it?) wears classic greek clothing. So they did change Cleo? Thank Goodness! Rewrite history - yes, but if you're going to name the leaders, have them look the part (they have the Iroqois leader in Native American dress!)

Umm...they've stated that the leader changes attire based on the "age" (ancient, medieval, etc.)

Up here, you often see Iroquois leaders wearing suits to meetings nowadays. Sometimes not, sometimes yes.

	26-09-2001 14:39									#19
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Cleopatra from medieval times, and later should have muslim clothes on

	27-09-2001 03:59									#20
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quote: Cleopatra from medieval times, and later should have muslim clothes on

Uh, no. Ancient Egyptians were not the ones conquered by the Muslims.

quote: Umm...they've stated that the leader changes attire based on the "age" (ancient, medieval, etc.)

I think this was already discussed...

	27-09-2001 13:07									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Christantine The Great Uh, no. Ancient Egyptians were not the ones conquered by the Muslims.

well they were the mostly the offspring of the ancient ones. and Cleo represents all the generations of Egyptians in the game. however realism does not mean great gameplay...

I'd rather have clothes by the type of government you are in... that looks more appropriate.

You could have a fundy Abe Lincon suit ... ah damn there is no fundamentalism in Civ III.

Ok than a comrad Abe Lincon uniform

	27-09-2001 14:21									#22
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On a more closer look, isn't it kinda silly to have a Greek queen to represent Egypt? I mean, they had a whole lot of glorious leaders, give them one of their own.

OTOH, it was pretty possible (up until we say Joanne d'ark) to have a Korsikan as French ruler

	27-09-2001 18:37									#23
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Personally I'd prefer Ramsess or Kheops to lead the Egyptians too... at least they were the ones who did something important, not lose the kingdom to Romans.

But Cleopatra is an obvious choice for a leader if Firaxis wants to be politically correct, and have a few women in.

	28-09-2001 03:41									#24
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quote: But Cleopatra is an obvious choice for a leader if Firaxis wants to be politically correct, and have a few women in.

Hum, the three Egyptian rulers that come to my mind almost instantly (not in this order):

Cleopatra
Ramases
Tut

Tut wasn't really that important, and Ramases wouldn't be known to anyone that didn't listen to their history teacher. That leaves Cleopatra. Plus she is scary-looking and isn't as lumpy as Catherine the Great, a good quality.

	30-09-2001 23:18									#25
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Another option for an egyptian ruler is queen Hatshepsut. She ruled the new kingdom from 1473-1458 BCE. she's best known for dispatching a naval expedition to Punt to open a direct trade between eygpt and the source of the prized myrrh resin. (there you go an pure egyptian, famous, female eygptian ruler.)

	01-10-2001 03:21									#26
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To everyone that keeps speaking about my original post - I didn't realize that they changed through the ages. So stop yelling at me!

	01-10-2001 06:11									#27
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[slowandsinistervoice]

Don't worry...we won't hurt you...

[/slowandsinistervoice]

You should edit the post with a message at the top saying "Major mistake on my part, forget this ever happened."

	01-10-2001 15:59									#28
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Channging through the ages or not, Montezume sure looks stupid in that suit. On the other hand I would probably not want to see Montezuma in his historical dress i year 2000.