25-09-2001 02:55									#1
	Why do they hate my living guts?... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

And what can I do about it? Every game I play, after a cordial first encounter, all the other (AI) players become uncooperative at best, more frequently hostile. They never want to trade stuff. Unless I have the Great Wall or United Nations, they will never make a peace treaty. Even when ocassionally they become my allies, they don't like me. And, the Eiffel Tower is no good. Even in 2,000 AD every other country can't forget "the ill way I treated the Zulus" back in 3,800 BC. One of the things I like most in Civ II is the chance to interact (I tend to prefer peaceful relations and development in the game) but I hardly ever get the chance.

Caralampio

	25-09-2001 03:12									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Why do they hate you?
I suspect you play MGE, as the AI is much more aggressive in that version than in others. If the human is anywhere near supreme, they will gang up on you. Eiffel Tower is indeed a worthless heap of iron in this game.

What can you do about it?
Well, build the Great Wall and United Nations! Really, the only way to buy temporary friendship with the AI is to give gifts. Giving them techs that won't harm you is an excellent way to better your reputation. It also makes your tech research faster. See the Great Library Index thread (Strategy forum) link to the "Secrets of Tech Gifting" or some such title.

The next best solution is to crush the irritating neighbors.

	25-09-2001 03:15									#3
	OT Got spare money?

By the way, check out the Hosted Site - Spanish Civ II forum. There you will find mucho de CivII y tambien muchos apolytonistas hispanicos. (Soy Gringo, thus the bad spanish... )

	25-09-2001 10:49									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq The next best solution is to crush the irritating neighbors.

Next best solution! No definitely THE BEST solution ...

	25-09-2001 16:12									#5
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quote: One of the things I like most in Civ II is the chance to interact (I tend to prefer peaceful relations and development in the game) but I hardly ever get the chance.

Play a muliplayer game. Interact with somebody that has a brain. Put down your games against an AI if you're looking for diplomatic interaction, because it's a waste of time. They will never like you.

	26-09-2001 04:05									#6
	Put an end to popups!

You could try to improve their attitude towards you by gifts eg a technology they don't have. It's a vital bit of strategy especially in OCC. If the archives are still around you could look up some very helpful tips on this issue.

	26-09-2001 11:30									#7
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Why do they hate you???
=>You human,they AI,It's their way of living.

What to do about it:merciless wiping them out
(but there is a little hope:CIV III )

Shade

	26-09-2001 11:34									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I was going to start a thread very much like this today; I hope it's okay if I piggy-back on this one.

I know why the AI hates me: I'm playing ToT. But here's what I don't understand. The last couple of games I've played (Diety/Raging/7), I've been trying to win without building any Wonders. Lack of Wonders means I'm never supreme; it's hard to expand without the happiness wonders, and hard to get ahead in techs without sience wonders. It also means I'm very peaceloving, since I don't want to divert needed science and trade resources into a military. Yet invariable, sometime around 1870 (around the time I discover steel/refining/flight), I get sneak attacked -- by weaker civs! In my latest game, I share a land border with the supreme Mongols, but they've left me alone; instead, the adequate Russians and inadequate Aztecs have travelled halfway around the world to launch sneak attacks that accomplish nothing. I know, I know: the AI is stupid. But my question is: what triggers this?

	26-09-2001 15:33									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I think you have either UCC or MGE, these versions of the game had a very anoying habit of having there attitude towards me set to hatred at the end of every game, this was attempt to make the game harder, ut it just made it anoying So I use FW for single player games and UCC/MGE for multiplayer.
There does not seem to be any way to turn this off.

	26-09-2001 16:08									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq The next best solution is to crush the irritating neighbors.

Caralampio, it's not so vice to follow this advice,
because you might end up in a veeeeeeery long war.

In MGE the AI is keen to (especially orange AI) tie alliances
with (almost) every other AI. And that will lead to a period
of unstable relations. Some times you migth get peace,
but mostly war and war. My advice would be to tie counter alliances
at an early stage. But that requires at least Marco Polo's Embassy.

I have suffered this at least twice thanks to Hannibal's
"so dear friends". But the reason is that I have UCC.

But Civ III is coming and that should at least help.

	02-10-2001 21:49									#11
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Rufus, I had a discussion about exactly this at on old Civ site (Civ 2 Universe) a long time ago. The poster who answered my question said that certain years trigger a worsening AI attitude towards the human player to make the game more difficult in the final phase.

He claimed the first was year was 1750 AD, but there may be multiple triggers. Don't know for sure if this is what actually happens, but that's what he told me.

Carolus

	02-10-2001 22:16									#12
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The little ethereal fellows in my pc sure don't wait until 1750 to hate me! It is not uncommon for me to have war declared on me upon my first contact with most or all the AI civs. No demands, just "Prepare for war!" I just restart if they all turn out to be surly curmudgeons. The game gets so tedious when it starts out this way - no fun.

	02-10-2001 22:51									#13
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I'm with you guys, i'm a peace-loving kinda chick, and i finally beat civII on Emporer for the first time yesterday! anyway, I was trying to build my freaking spaceship. my reputation (as always) was spotless, and those wretched little freaks kept attacking me for no reason. i ended up wiping them out before i even launched the spaceship (which is actually good, because it wouldn't have made it there before 2020) I've never won by conquest before (in 2 years of civ playing, i've never tried.) i don't know what the deal is... i also don't know why it has taken me this long to be able to beat the game on emporer, when people are talking about beating deity without building wonders and winning by ad 1. what is with that? how stupid am i?

	03-10-2001 10:25									#14
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quote: Originally posted by dirt I'm with you guys, i'm a peace-loving kinda chick, and i finally beat civII on Emporer for the first time yesterday!

Hey, congrats! And welcome to Apolyton!

quote: anyway, I was trying to build my freaking spaceship. my reputation (as always) was spotless, and those wretched little freaks kept attacking me for no reason. i ended up wiping them out before i even launched the spaceship (which is actually good, because it wouldn't have made it there before 2020)

Especially since the AI gets really hostile after you launch. The first time I ever won on Deity, it was in a game where a civ had built the Manhattan Project; one turn before I landed, every remaining civ sneak attacked me with nukes!

quote: I've never won by conquest before (in 2 years of civ playing, i've never tried.) i don't know what the deal is... i also don't know why it has taken me this long to be able to beat the game on emporer, when people are talking about beating deity without building wonders and winning by ad 1. what is with that? how stupid am i?

Nah, what I've learned here is there are a bunch of folks who've turned civ from a game into a science (I suspect Apolytoners could cure cancer if they would just take Civ out of the disk drive ). I supect I would never have won on deity by now, let alone done so without wonders or with only one city, without the assistance of all the knowledge collected here.

aside to Carolus Rex: Good to know; that was what I suspected. Thanks.

	03-10-2001 12:49									#15
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Chère Marquis de Sodaq,

Yes, it is possible to be picked at by all the other civs earlier than 1750 AD. Either if you have a rep from hell or if you're superior (in which case they will gang up on you, forming alliances to contain your "aggression" even if you have played like Kofi Anan himself the whole game ).

But, according to what I was told, the AI's attitude will worsen for sure at certain years, even if you are spotless and your power intermediate. This does not exclude the possibility to be picked at earlier.

Carolus

	03-10-2001 18:07									#16
	Put an end to popups!

I think there are tech triggers that make the AIs turn uncooperative, too. In my first spaceship game, I was way ahead of the AIs, and they begged for peace and happily paid tribute throughout the game. Once I discovered Space Flight, though (in 1420), they would declare war as soon as I talked to them.

	03-10-2001 22:56									#17
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Carolus Rex, I often do get off to a quick start - first in most demographic categories. It isn't all that surprizing that it turns out that way, really, as the game is designed to make it more difficult the larger your lead...

DaveV, gunpowder is also sure to raise aggression by the AI. At the first contact following your (presumably the world's first) discovery of gunpowder, all will demand it. Of course, it's always good to give them some show and tell in the field first...

	05-10-2001 00:13									#18
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quote: it was in a game where a civ had built the Manhattan Project; one turn before I landed, every remaining civ sneak attacked me with nukes!

my fear for the AI and nukes goes so far that I first try to get an SDI in most(all) of my cities before I build manhatten(except when the AI starts builing before me)

and in the end I kick ...

Shade

	05-10-2001 04:07									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Og course, it could just be you, Caralampio. Maybe the rest of us really get along with the AI fine, and we're just stringing you along. Actually, it appears to be built into the program to unite against the number 1 power, if that power is human-controlled. This is how the programmers tried to present us with more of a challenge. So thank the nice programmers, and get on with kicking in the teeth of everyone in the neighborhood.