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aeturneus
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Edmonton, Canada
Apr 2001
time: 22:15
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Formal Declaration of War
The Smuggler’s Alliance entered into a non-aggression pact with Apolyton Corporation some time in the past. In the past, the universe was a balanced, relatively peaceful place. In the past, we did not consistently hear Apolyton boasting of their superior strength. In the past, Apolyton did not have a level 5 planet called Foor Axice, and all the wealth of that world.
We have entered a new era. Apolyton is now clearly the most powerful presence in the universe. This advantage will undoubtedly be parlayed into an intolerable monopoly of power that will undo the balance that has heretofore preserved peace in the universe. In order to prevent the tyranny of a few over the many, The Smuggler’s Alliance will act now against Apolyton Corporation before it is too late.
For all mankind, we of The Smuggler's Alliance hereby declare war on Apolyton Corporation.
(Signed)
Talon Karrde, C.E.O.
aeturneus, Chief Executive of External Affairs
Evil, even hidden under a blue cloak, will be destroyed.
PS: this was meant to be posted earlier, but a secretary lost it. Apologies for the delay.
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burbel
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Austin, Texas
Apr 2001
time: 23:15
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Pearl Harbor quotes aside, I still think this was a cheap shot that you took (pre-emptively) against Apolyton.
There have been numerous times when your ship adjacent to the Stardock was not destroyed, when you ran out of turns at Sector 1, etc, yet we did not invalidate the non-agression pact to attack you. One would argue that this is the point of a non-agression treaty.
We have never boasted of our strength, quite the opposite.
We have never violated nor cancelled a non-agression pact, something that you have done multiple times to multiuple players.
And the fact that we had a planet with a citadel did not force you to invade us, to take it for yourself, and, no doubt, to use it against the other players in the game.
I hereby bow before the combined backstabbing and underhanded tactics that have become (sorry Talon) the Smuggler's Alliance trademark.
While I would call for other traders to help us against your monopolistic scheming, I realize that no one in this Universe can hope to match you militarily, and I see no need to ask others to join me in my suffering at your hands; although surely that will come to then soon enough.
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burbel
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Austin, Texas
Apr 2001
time: 23:15
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Well, since Apolyton II and IV have been taken, let me correct some things. First, Apolyton II was a planet with a level 3 citadel, working on level 4. It had around 12,000 colos. Apolyton IV was an oceanic planet with over 15,000 colos, so, all in all, SA has sacked almost 30,000 colos from us. Apolyton IV's q-cannon is almost up, btw.
As for the "numerous other sectors", Aeturneus already knew about them, and that was the reason that they attacked. One of our sectors is not at all well defended; we thought that would go down in the first wave (guess he didn't have enough turns left to take that one).
And, I could be wrong, but a class 5 planet is called "planetary shielding", a purely defensive ability; it is not termed "repress every player and claim control of the galaxy". 
When all is said and done, you broke a number of treaties, and executed a pre-meditated strike against a few trusting fellow players, whose only mistakes have been to believe some of their fellow traders when they gave us their word, and trust that non-agression did not mean I will pod you as soon as I possibly can.
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aeturneus
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Edmonton, Canada
Apr 2001
time: 22:15
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Well your pm box is full so I can't reply to your private message or this one that way. I will reply to both here.
Foor Axice was a mistake - a planet like that shouldn't be put into a tournament game like this, because of the total randomness of who finds it first and who gets to invade it first. It struck a cold fear into my heart when a fellow player told me it was being shielded. That is the main reason for our attack.
Secondly, this became more of a diplo-game than the tradewars game it was meant to be. That is probably because it is based off of a message board, but also because of the extremely low number of turns allocated to players. Most games have a minimum of 1000 turns, and this is considered standard for tradewars games.
Thirdly, you were cross-podding with solarwind. This seemed to me a way of saying that you were preparing to pod me and talon, or to at least begin aggressive moves against us. I struck pre-emptively in order to prevent that. There wasn't time for talking about pacts when reality was indicating an emminent strike which we weren't prepared for.
Fourthly, I gave you a lot for your signature on that non-agression treaty. I could have podded both of you almost every single day. I didn't, because of the treaty... but after realizing how far ahead you were when terra was emptied of colonists and we only had about 24 million, and you had the alignment to attack us, we felt forced to act. I apologize if you were too trusting, but again, this is not a diplo-game, it is tradewars, and war is part of the name of the game.
Finally, if you really are going to be leaving the game, I will miss you a lot. You were a great player. I think if we rebang with better settings we can still have fun with this, and make it more of a tradewars game than a diplo-game.
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burbel
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Austin, Texas
Apr 2001
time: 23:15
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Actually, the main reason for taking a pause is that work is heating up; however, I am not about to turn away and waste my Swath registration fee.
And as for the cross-podding; well, Solarwind caught himself somewhere with some of our toll fighters, and couldn't pass. Due to the 1-way warp, he couldnt' retreat.
I was going to pod and kill him (and collect the reward that I posted against him), but, since he was new to the game, I let it go, and freed him. In return he allowed me to pod him, the same thing that you had already done.
I did it in response to your actions, not for any other reason. Why would we have ever invaded or attacked you?
Too bad he got killed as well.
Also, please don't get me wrong, I am sure that there is still a lot of fun to be had left in this game. Please don't re-bang it on my part!
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burbel
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Austin, Texas
Apr 2001
time: 23:15
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Well, not to stir the pot, but Apolyton I, a planet that we created and started working with, should be up to it's level 5 citadel either today or tomorrow. Since fuel ore production on it is better than Foor Axice, as it Organics and fighter production, that planet should be harder to take than Foor Axice (if we were able to move the planetary shields as I had intended).
Yes, Foor Axice gave us an advantage. But it's not that huge; we should have hit our first level 5 today, and, I think, our 3rd or fourth level 4.
Since Foor Axice was a class M (Earth) planet, it really wouldn't be worth us using now, except as an equipment farm.
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aeturneus
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Edmonton, Canada
Apr 2001
time: 22:15
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
we CAPTURED it. end of story.
anything it may had was something that we EARNED not STOLE from someone in the game... |
Ok you, you captured it. Unfortunately, this was an ADVANTAGE because there were no other Foor Axice's in the game to capture.
quote:
I don't see how you can have precise Quasar Cannon calculations, since the level each one operates at is totally adjustable. Maybe it's set at 2%, or 3%, or 5%. You don't know this, so you can't make any calculations. |
I flew a ship into that sector twice, and was able to calculate the percentage the quasar cannon was set to from the difference in battle points taken. Pretty basic math if you ask me. BTW the level is 5%
quote:
I don't see anything wrong with a L5 Citadel since you too can build one. How is that an anormaly? Just because somebody pours resources into building one and you don't, it's not your right to complain. |
S>A will also have a level 5 citadel quite shortly. My point is not that level fives are unfair, but that the game is UNBALANCED. It is unbalanced because the game settings are quite strange, to be frank. Check some of the other tournament games and see if they play with this few turns, with such a low port regen rate (doesn't matter how many ports there are if the port you have upgraded to sell organics to with about 1.5 million credits takes 7 days to replenish, instead of the normal 3-4)
quote:
I have no problems with trading either. As a matter of fact there are huge number of ports in the universe. I just ran into an unused port yesterday. That tells you something. |
Well, good for you. But, with just 400 turns, you will NEVER make enough trading to take a planet like Foor Axice. So, the game is unbalanced because offense is technically impossible... if we all sit behind our giant lev. 5 citadels and just keep trading and selling organics and making figs, what is the FUN in that? Nobody can be attacked, nobody captured, nobody has to worry about defense very much, as long as you have enough colonists and the minimum of shields.
Comprenez-vous?
Last edited by aeturneus on 26-09-2001 at 18:09
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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quote:
Originally posted by aeturneus
I flew a ship into that sector twice, and was able to calculate the percentage the quasar cannon was set to from the difference in battle points taken. Pretty basic math if you ask me. BTW the level is 5% |
If the damage is deterministic, it will be the same both times. If it's random, how can you calculate it? 
quote:
Originally posted by aeturneus
Well, good for you. But, with just 400 turns, you will NEVER make enough trading to take a planet like Foor Axice. So, the game is unbalanced because offense is technically impossible... if we all sit behind our giant lev. 5 citadels and just keep trading and selling organics and making figs, what is the FUN in that? Nobody can be attacked, nobody captured, nobody has to worry about defense very much, as long as you have enough colonists and the minimum of shields.
Comprenez-vous? |
IIRC, the Shield Generator just stops photons from affecting the planet, not stopping you from invading. They still need a massive fleet of fighters to defend the planet.
Also, if the port regen rate is low, it cuts both ways. You can't sell your organics, neither can they. You can't trade, neither can they. They get their planets making fighters, so can you.
Maybe the game settings are unusual. You need to devise your strategies accordingly.
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aeturneus
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Edmonton, Canada
Apr 2001
time: 22:15
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The damage a quasar cannon inflicts is a function of the amount of fuel ore on the planet. Every time the q-cannon fires, it uses 5% of fuel ore (in this case) therefore it is possible to calculate the amount of fuel ore on the planet based on the difference in damage between two blasts.
It won't take many figs to defend it. Let me explain the steps required to take this planet.
1. enter sector, take 1200 battle points damage
2. try to land on planet, take 15000 battle points damage (assuming an atmospheric attack ratio of 50%, which would be consistent with all other apolyton q-cannons so far encountered)
3. attack shields at a minimum cost of 25,000 fighters to destroy 1000 planetary shields (1:25 odds against an ISS)
4. take an 8000 point blast from the atmospheric q-cannon after the shields are destroyed.
5. take out a probably 5000 fighters at a minimum cost of 10000 fighters.
6. take yet another blast from the quasar cannon of 4000 battle points
7. Land on planet and claim the bloody cannon for your own at a total cost of at least 62,200 battle points - more than the total shields on an ISS - which leads to the next problem
You would have to destroy the shields in an interdictor cruiser, then break off the attack and get into an ISS since an Interdictor Cruiser cannot land on the planet. So the process would be.
1. Photon the sector
2. transport into an Interdictor Cruiser
3. enter sector, take 1200 battle points damage
4. try to land on planet, take 15000 battle points damage (assuming an atmospheric attack ratio of 50%, which would be consistent with all other apolyton q-cannons so far encountered)
5. attack shields at a minimum cost of 25,000 fighters to destroy 1000 planetary shields (1:25 odds against an ISS)
6. take an 8000 point blast from the atmospheric q-cannon after the shields are destroyed.
7. break off attack and take 10,000 battle points damage when re-entering the sector from the other two q-cannons in the sector which will be ready to fire at this point
8. x-port into the ISS
9. Re-photon the contested sector
10. Re-enter the sector
11. take out a probably 5000 fighters at a minimum cost of 10000 fighters.
13. Land on planet and claim the bloody cannon for your own at a total cost of at least 68,000 battle points + 2 p-torps + 1 Interdictor Cruiser
68,000 fighters at todays bargain prices would be somewheres around 13 million.
By the time you make 13 million the planet will have 2x the fuel ore, and it will take about 80-90 thousand fighters to invade the planet.
By the time you make 18 million the planet will have even more fuel ore, so you will need about 100,000 fighters at least
So, to capture foor axice, we are looking at minimum twenty million credits.
This is a hell of a lot of money for a planet that is totally abandoned, and that is only assuming about 5,000 fighters on the planet. If they had a massive fleet of figs on the planet, well, lets see.... make that 25 million credits or something like that.
quote:
Also, if the port regen rate is low, it cuts both ways. You can't sell your organics, neither can they. You can't trade, neither can they. They get their planets making fighters, so can you. |
Sorry, but this is just totally idiotic and misses completely my original point.
IT IS TOO CHEAP TO DEFEND, because fuel ore is dependent upon the # of colonists, and cash flow is dependent upon the port regen rate. It doesn't matter if they are as poor as you, if nobody can invade anyone else because of the incredible cost, the game still sucks and is unbalanced IMHO. It is possible for the game to become unbalanced like this if the port regen rate is set too low because the port regen rate is a variable number and the ore generation rate is built into the game, and standardized.
S>A currently has a heck of a lot of colonists, but they are all going to be shipped to organics farms in an effort to make enough money over the next month to capture foor axice, just for the heck of it.
Nobody else has enough colonists to even think about doing this... and since apolyton can't access their strong sector anymore, to all intents and purposes, the game is over...
1. colonist flow is low, and you will need about 100 million colonists to make a difference (re: challenge S>A at all) in the game at this point...
2. we have more citadels than anyone, and better ones...
3. we have ports that have been thoroughly upgraded, at a cost of millions of credits...
4. everyone seems to be kind of grumpy about all of this, so I propose rebanging this game with a nice high port regen rate in order to solve all of these problems.
Last edited by aeturneus on 27-09-2001 at 07:33
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burbel
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Austin, Texas
Apr 2001
time: 23:15
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Well, depending on the thoughts about a rebang, there are 3 planets in the sector with Q Cannons, 1 making 35,000 fuel ore per day, one 10,000 per day, and none on Foor Axice.
Fighter rates are around 113 on Foor Axice, 800 on Apolyton I, and 600 on Apolyton III. Now who knows about the other planets;
Question - do planetary shields really help with the Q-Cannon? From what I read, I thought that was a bug, and planetary shields do *not* help against a Q-Cannon.
Rebang?
Technically, Myself, Aeturneus, MarkG, and Solarwind should be out. Now that I know what constitutes a kill... 
Does that make Talon the winnder of this game, since he controls a good number of citadels, and is working to take the 88M remaining colos from Apolyton's holdings?
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aeturneus
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Edmonton, Canada
Apr 2001
time: 22:15
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talon AND aeturneus... 
what do you mean by technically out of the game? The original concept was that you would be out when you were #ship destroyed# 3 times. That has been changed to being out after getting a ship blown up 10 times... as far as I see it, nobody is out of the game under either rule 
You will notice that I had two merchant freighters destroyed by a q-cannon yesterday... I had fired a photon missile into foor axice sector, and it didn;t dampen the q-cannon, as proven by the fact that my freighters were destroyed by it. So yes, enough shields DO help a LOT.
Also, shields have a 1:25 defense ratio, which is incredibly high. You have to destroy all shields before you can even see how many figs are on the planet, and the q-cannon blasts you before you attack the shields, and after every attack on the shields.
If foor axice isn't making any ore, we should be able to take it in a month or so. Since the other planets don't have shields, they can be photon dampened and it won't be a problem to take them.
-aeturneus
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Apolyton Time is 00:15. |
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25-09-2001 03:17
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