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Avenoct
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NC, USA
Apr 2001
time: 00:15
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Yeah, sorry for the ambiguity...with spoils of war, a player gains a tech for taking a base. An intelligent player might take an AI base, give it back, and take it again, and there are only 76 techs in the tech tree. A human player won't fall for this kind of Shenanigan. Secondly, if all goes well, the humans will kill off the AI, or make them submit...there's rarely an MP game when the AI wins. So you can calculate that if the AI manages to build 40 bases, that's 10 free techs per player. I'd rather earn the techs through research or probe-action, or trading. It's just my own point of view and I can see where it would be fun to have Spoils of War in an All-Human game. Still, this tends to magnify the benefits of the winning player and snowballs the game toward it's conclusion faster than I really enjoy.
There's my 2 EC's.
-Smack
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DrSpike
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Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Sep 2001
time: 05:15
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Hmm, the AI thing makes sense.
As a civ2 player I can see your other point, but in civ2 the leading player often doesn't have a tech to select, because he already has all the techs of the weaker player. I'm not sure if that applies with the wider SMAC tech tree.
Anyway either we could play spoils of war with the 4 of us and no AI. Otherwise we could play with spoils of war off and just 4, or 4 + 3 AI. What is the difference? Any preferences? Either way we have 4 players and a CMN (Googlie), so play should commence asap.
I'm playing university. I propose we give SamIam next choice of faction, since Smack and gooeyblob are clearly going to hand our asses to us. I suppose the game is too balanced for there to be any recognised weaker factions we could stick Smack and gooeyblob with? 
I would like to play as quickly as possible, since this is going to be a learning game for me. Again, I don't know the convention, but as I understand it the factions have a move order, and we should discuss times of availability to make the game as smooth as possible.
Thoughts?
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:15
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OK - here's a suggestion:
SMAC v 4.0
Thinker level
Spoils off, 4 humans 3 AI, and I'll strengthen the AI so that it won't be a pushover in the early to mid game. Hrere's how:
DrSpike : University
Gooeyblob - Hive
SamIAm - Gaians
Smack - Morgan
The AI will be tweaked so that Santiago and Miriam have sworn eternal fealty to Lal (he has permanently enslaved them). In other games that has created a pretty strong AI as they do combine their research efforts - and Sparta and the Believers do provide some muscle to an otherwise anemic PK faction.
Co-op victory is on, so that players can team up (remember no more than 3 can share in a co-op victory - so the AI Alliance can win a co-op victory)
Directed research, pod scattering, no random events
I'd suggest a large random Planet rather than Standard (gives the builders a bit of a chance - as well as the AI). Average everything (but don't worry, SamIAm, I'll give you plenty fungus to romp around in)
I'll create the scenario this evening - any dissenters to those conditions please post ASAP
Googlie
Oh, and DrSpike - you can download Vel's pre-publication guide at the Spartan Chronicles site:
http://googlie2.tripod.com/spartanchronicles/id10.html
Cheers,
G.
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:15
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The AI is strengthened thru the submissive pact - trouble with PBEMs is that the player in closest proximity to AI factions will invariably win, all other things being equal, as he will rapidly conquer AI bases and factions.
(Thus CMNs find that the hardest part of setting up a game - giving equal access to AI spoils - which is why many PBEMs drop the AI completely, as being too unbalancing)
By setting up a submissive arrangement (and we don't need to make it permanent - so one could pry say, Sparta, from Lal) we - in this case - would double the PK/Sparta research (they share - Believers are pretty useless in research) as well as ensuring that you, the human players, now think twice about just going on the rampage against an AI faction, 'cos attack one and you attack all 3 'cos of their pact.
As an example of the research powerhouse they become, lal starts with Biogenetics and Miriam with Social Psych. They have each otherc commlinks, and Miriam is a lal submissive. Turn one she gives him Soc Psych. Turn ten or so he gets Secrets of the Human Brain, with its free tech advance. and so on.
But in the AI diplomacy and strategy settings (in the scenario editor) I can focus each of the three AI factions on different things - eg make theSpartans concentrate on land development, the Believers on Air and the PKs on land and sea. I can make the PKs a pop-boom faction, and the Believers a probe-rich faction, etc. I can do these, of course, independent of making them submissives to a Lal or Santiago - this latter feature, as I say, makes their research co-ordinated and shared, as well as influencing the game somewhat.
eg again, Lal would certainly get the Empath Guild and be the perennial Planetary Governor - which makes the game from the human point of view that much more challenging (as many consider the EG to be the gamebreaker SP in a human's hands) as you'd have to pact or probe for infiltration (or take the EG base from Lal).
Thanks to their combined research, Sparta would be first to impact weapons, followed next turn by Miriam - again adding a different dimension to the game - a much stronger AI. They'll be first to Air Power as well, again a change from the norm in PBEMs with AI factions.
Diplomacy becomes interesting if, for example, in the scenario diplomacy settings I make Lal pacifist (he becomes a builder) and Sparta and Believers belligerent. And if I make the latter hostile to two human factions and "will betray" to the other two (different pairs for both AI's) but make Lal co-operative to all 4, then the tensions that emerge are a great additio9n to gameplay.
The net result of this would be to put the AI on a roughly equal footing with the individual human players for at least half to two-thirds of the game (they'll be stronger in the first 50 years, will slowly move to parity over the next 50, then the humans will move ahead, thanks to better management decisions (energy crawlers, sea trawlers, etc) and strategy.
Another way to make the AI stronger (but I wouldn't do it in this game unless asked) would be to give them 3 forested tiles around their HQ base, with a crawler on each. In other games, this "suggestion" planted in the AI's "mind" has been enough to, after 100 years, see an AI faction with 30 or 40 crawlers, which as anyone will tell you, is rare indeed. (course they only crawl minerals from forested squares - the concept of a crawlered energy park is utterly alien, but at least it's a start)
As to forcing co-operation among the humans - I don't think it makes it any more compelling than otherwise. You'll find that with 4 players you will inevitably forge a loose 2 vs 2 alliance. I can leave "co-op victory" off, so that there is only one winner. you might still have the 2 vs 2 alliances, but eventually one of the pairs would stab the other in the back to get victory.
Anyway, I'll await your instructions ...
Googlie
Last edited by Googlie on 29-09-2001 at 18:52
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:15
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DrSpike and gooeyblob:
Can you send an e-mail to me at:
linfrew@aol.com
so that I have your e-mail addresses on file (and to send you the passwords)
DrSpike:
Which free tech would you like as the Uni?
Thanks
G.
Last edited by Googlie on 30-09-2001 at 10:19
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26-09-2001 00:02
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