27-09-2001 00:00									#1
	Civ 3 AI better be damn good! Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I read (or saw in a movie download) that Sid and Firaxis believe that singleplayer is the heart of the Civ experience.
They better back this up with some nifty AI programming. I don't mind being without multiplayer so long as single offers a challenge.

The Civ 2 AI was shameful.
Example: In Civ 2, AI units would attack armor fortified a mountaintop with a friggin warrior. It wouldn't hard to have the AI check the chances of victory in a particular combat before making the move, then have each successive AI difficulty engage in more likely wins for himself.

I hope a good bit of their playtesting goes toward making a competant AI.

	27-09-2001 00:02									#2
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i don't really play against the AI as to build the ultimate empire which has the capacity to beat the AI when i feel like it The AI is just there to provide something to beat up while my cities are on the way to becoming super metropolis....

	27-09-2001 00:06									#3
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Perhaps you should try Simcity Rakki. The cities are a lot cooler, and there is no silly AI to get in your way.

	27-09-2001 00:11									#4
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why ? just because i'm not an aggressive miltiarist doesn't mean I = Simcity Mayor.

I enjoy building up a carrier group complete with steal fighters and bombers accompanied by amphibious assault group of marines, tanks and mech inf. as much as the next player. I just don't use them all the time..... (my engineer units in civ2 usually outnumber my active military units)

Rakki <- expansionistic perfectionist.

	27-09-2001 00:11									#5
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I have never played against an AI which couldn't be exploited and don't think it will be possible to program one in the near future. I still think we are many years away from doing so in any game that has so many variables. The problem is that they don't understand strategy or tactics, and just respond depending on certain conditions.

There are only a few variables in chess, and it takes a supercomputer to beat the best.

	27-09-2001 00:22									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Rakki why ? just because i'm not an aggressive miltiarist doesn't mean I = Simcity Mayor. I enjoy building up a carrier group complete with steal fighters and bombers accompanied by amphibious assault group of marines, tanks and mech inf. as much as the next player. I just don't use them all the time..... (my engineer units in civ2 usually outnumber my active military units) Rakki <- expansionistic perfectionist.

My style of play is similar to yours. I really like it when the ai throws hundreds of units at me and i stop them with 5.
Then at the end of the game i take over the world.

Hopefully, the ai will be much improved. Or make it cheat more. The hardest part of the game for the human player is the beginning. Around the middle of the game though, the human player's power begins to grow exponentially. This is where the ai really has to help itself so that it can provide a competitive modern age.

	27-09-2001 00:48									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Akron My style of play is similar to yours. I really like it when the ai throws hundreds of units at me and i stop them with 5. Then at the end of the game i take over the world.

So you want more stupid AI?

	27-09-2001 00:52									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Rakki i don't really play against the AI as to build the ultimate empire which has the capacity to beat the AI when i feel like it The AI is just there to provide something to beat up while my cities are on the way to becoming super metropolis....

Exactly my point. I dont want Civ3 AI to be a mere stepping stone to world domination. Thats' no fun. Sounds like you guys are looking forward to more weak AI that allows you to easily conquer the world. How boring.

	27-09-2001 00:59									#9
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If the AI can just put together some well-coordinated attacks and not send units after me one at a time, I'll be happy.

If the AI can actually build a nice infrastructure, I'll be ecstatic.

	27-09-2001 01:01									#10
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yeah. i like to play as as peacful perfectionist civ (that has a nice big army ready to demolish a stupid AI -much like the carrier fleets spoken of).

But in Civ 2 the AI was to agressive eg. i have never declared war so they sign anti aggression pacts just cos i have no millitary and lotsa science!

But it sounds like you wil be able to exploit the Civ3 AI to fight your wars for you etc and that power (as in civ2) is less influencial, where as reputation and culture seem to be the centers of power.

	27-09-2001 04:33									#11
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quote: Originally posted by HalfLotus So you want more stupid AI?

No, I said "Hopefully, the ai will be much improved."

In civ 2 it was fun to put yourself at a disadvantage so that the game would be harder. Usually, when i get ahead in technology towards the end of the game, I'll give the ai all my tech as gifts. So it makes it more fun.

	27-09-2001 04:52									#12
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I hope the AI is tough at higher difficulty levels. 6 difficulty modes give you a wide range of difficulty.

I want my civ to be great, and to dominate the world, but I want it to be because I'm a good civ leader, not because the AI sucks.

	27-09-2001 09:44									#13
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Well, if the AI does suck (hope not!), then there's always Multiplayer.

Oops! Sorry I said that!

But I am sure with the extra time they have now to work on the AI for singleplayer, it should be better than in the previous CIV games.

	27-09-2001 10:06									#14
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If you thought the ai in civ2 was bad then you should play SMAC
Actually the ai in civ2 wasnt that bad, sure you could easily win if they were as big as you but they were still much better than civ1, in civ2 they atleast attacked with mroe than 1 unit.

	27-09-2001 12:17									#15
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The only thing I would like to see improved by the AI is the terrainimprovement buildings (?) So the AI doesn't live in the forrests in the 20th century, they should be able to clear for forrests so they have more place to irregate (and their country looks more modern)

	27-09-2001 12:54									#16
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The only proper solution for AI is that it can be customised by players... in a way that experienced players can teach (write) their own tehniques for AI... in that way AI knowledge/tactics will grow with our understanding of the game... that is the only way to go, the only question is if that is possible, and if it is will firaxis include it in the editor. (Or give us some text fiels to modify/add) etc...

	27-09-2001 13:10									#17
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The AI should be self-educating. So each game you play, it gets smarter!

	27-09-2001 13:18									#18
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quote: Originally posted by campmajor! The AI should be self-educating. So each game you play, it gets smarter!

I guess this must be too hard to do... but I am not a programmer so... It would be great if they could.

	27-09-2001 18:13									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

AKRON you also said:

quote: Originally posted by Akron I really like it when the ai throws hundreds of units at me and i stop them with 5.

That's what led me to believe you enjoy crappy AI. Seems that a lot of folks on the board are still in CIV 2 mindframe....applying old strategies to Civ 3 gameplay. Not gonna work.