27-09-2001 22:27									#1
	NEWSFLASH! A meteor has hit one of your bases leaving a huge crater!!!!! Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

WHAT THE F*!%!!!!! Has this nightmare ever happened with anyone else?

It was the year 2100 excactly, and a huge thigy DESTOYS once of my best hive bases

Fortunatle, it was only in the PROCESS OF BUILDING the empath Guild, and i lost nothing of real importance except people... so the only real immediate effect was population loss, and im the hive so it doesnt matter

Questions

1. just like with the Garland Crater (I think thats what its called), what are, if at all, the resource benefits of this new crater?

2. were other factions supposed to be showing pity and mercy for this tradgedy? CAuse they arent now

3. What would you do? Ive lost all the enhancements i built there, how should i rebuild?, right in the middle again? Make two to the sides?

4. Was this a random act of fate, or am i somehow responsible? Can it happen again? Im pretty sure ive caused no ecopnic damage anywhere, and planet cant just summon the stars can she? I dont have the add-on installed on the computer im playing it with, so the alien factions arent responsible... perhaps someone sent me a planet buster and "disguised" it to look like a natural event?

HELP!

	27-09-2001 22:54									#2
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The meteor crash is perhaps the worst of the random events. The only way to avoid this is to turn off the random events before you start the game. People who have looked at this believe there is a function where the meteor is most likely to hit a good base of the leading faction (evening out the game a bit)

Of the random events I personally hate the one where solar flares take out your satellites. I might have 10 bases needing the food and suddenly all the food sats are gone. Thats why I usually turn off whatever needs to be turned to avoid those things.

	28-09-2001 03:09									#3
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Heh! heh!

Just finished a game as Morgan where Nessus (the moon) was struck twice(!) by an asteroid!? Both times, the 'steroid hit right after my nessus mining satellite count matched the size of my largest base. That's not as bad as getting a major base waxed by an asteroid, though. I haven't had that one happen to me... yet!

As Morgan, the most common catastrophe seems to be the energy market crash, which always occurs just as you are contemplating rush building some key SP.

	28-09-2001 04:44									#4
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WOW! I didn't even know that could happen. It's never, ever happened to me at all!

	28-09-2001 06:25									#5
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Count your blessings Mr. President. I have been hit twice. My HQ and first science city in both cases.

I am guessing that Xian means 2200 rather than 2100. 2100 isn't too serious.

	28-09-2001 07:39									#6
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To this date I've play more than 100 games of SMAC/X and the asteroid stikes have NEVER ONCE happened to me (okey I only have random events on maybe half that time) so I would say that it's kinda seldom event when it comes to random events.

-knowhow2

	28-09-2001 08:23									#7
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I get Asteroid hits in about a third of my games. I have had two games in a row where the Asteroid hit my most productive base. In one game, I actually had three Asteroid hits - top that anyone!

What really frosts me is the SP's I lose. In one game, I even lost the HSA, which made the game real interesting.

I notice the hits only come when you are the leading faction and you are producing ED. This appears to be Planet's very subtle way of reducing ED.

Ned

	28-09-2001 10:57									#8
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I was once hit by an asteroid to a base I conquered a few turns earlier. And in one game the asteroid destroyed Morgan (AI) HQ
Does it ever happen that the asteroid hits to non-city square? I've never seen this. Nor that the asteroid hits a seabase...

	28-09-2001 14:40									#9
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo Does it ever happen that the asteroid hits to non-city square? I've never seen this. Nor that the asteroid hits a seabase...

Nope, in the same way that the volcano random event always occurs in an unoccupied area of sea, the asteroid somehow always finds a juicy SP-rich land base

	28-09-2001 16:39									#10
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Actually, it does not necessarily hit an SP rich base. It hits your most developed base or the base having the highest mineral production. Which it hits is also limited by the criteria that the Asteroid must hit far enough into a landmass to form the crater.

Given the above, one can almost plan for an Asteroid hit by building a strong inland base, separated from other bases. Build up its infrastructure and its mineral production to #1, but build no SPs in it.

Ned

	28-09-2001 21:41									#11
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Ned has a Librarian.... aaglo has a Librarian....., a guy could get confused for less

	28-09-2001 23:56									#12
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I have never had an asteroid strike in all my months of playing SMAC (touch wood touch wood touch wood). I've had volcanic eruptions aplenty, maybe one every two games, maybe more often if I'm unlucky.
I can play on maps with no Garland Crater in sight, and yet avoid crater strikes. I don't know how it happens - in the early game I usually SP-cram into my biggest min-producing base, although in recent games I've beelined to Ind Auto and built crawler fleets to take that base down to average and pump the mins into another base for SP production.

Maybe I'm just lucky!

	29-09-2001 06:27									#13
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i still would like to get some of my questions answered, and yes, i meant 2200 (although 2100 would END MY ENTIRE GAME)

I apologize for spoiling the surprise of anyone who this hasnt happened too, although its not really pleasant, i figure sombody probably wouldve laughed at it if it hadnt been for me

	29-09-2001 07:17									#14
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Xian, I will try to answer some of your questions.

I think you will find that Ned's experience is very much the exception. Meteor strikes are rare events. We have speculated in the past what factors make them more likely to happen, but it is just speculation. For me it has only happened in SMAC, never SMACX. A big, productive base seems to be the most likely target. In both instances I got nailed I also had a considerable lead, at least double anyone else on the might chart. The likelihood of some other random events increases if you have the lead, so perhaps that is a factor.

So it is a rare, random event. The randomness of it seems to be somehow set at the start of the game. I had a .sav ten years prior to a meteor hit and tested by replaying from my saved game several times. By playing differently I could change the date of the strike by a year or two but I was never able to play without getting nailed in that particular game.

I expect that you would get extra minerals out of your new crater, but I confess that in both instances I got hit that I just abandoned the game. So I can't really answer your questions about sympathy from the AI, but I highly doubt it. The never seem to care about other random events that hit you.

No chance that someone PB'd you. When that happens you get a big mushroom cloud and a chunk of planet torn away. No nice crater, usually just a lake that we like to call a "fission" pond.

As far as where to rebuild, it is difficult to know without seeing your map. I tend to not alter my regular city spacing for the Garland Crater, I just keep it the same as if there were no crater there. Others, including the AI, seem to prefer a single base in the centre of the crater.

	29-09-2001 11:12									#15
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I don't know if this is a factor in why I get such a high percentage of Asteroid strikes, but I routinely play on maps larger than huge. This forces one to use "custom." My typical map selections are the center choices of the three, save for native life, which is set for "abundant." I also normally play with standard rules. Always Transcend.

In all cases when I got hit, I was the leading faction. I may not have been double the second place faction though.

In every case, I got a ground hit before tree farms, with satellite hits typically after I begin to build Orbital Power Generators.

I all cases that I remember, I was getting ED and had experienced at least one pop.

However, I do not believe the size of a city has any relevance to whether it is going to be hit. In my last game, my smallest base, a size three base, got hit. It just happened to be my most productive - with the most infrastructure as well.

Ned

	30-09-2001 01:44									#16
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A few questions:

1. So, if I would want to see a meteorite crash, I would have to build a huge base with as much ED as possible, right? And play on Transcend.

2. When the event occurrs, can you actually see the meteorite fall, like in the beginning when the colony pod falls to the ground?

	30-09-2001 04:17									#17
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quote: . So, if I would want to see a meteorite crash, I would have to build a huge base with as much ED as possible, right? And play on Transcend.

You are right about the base (not necessarily the biggest base you have, but certainly the most productive - and ED also plays a key role, of course). But you don't have to play on Transcend always. I've been hit in two different games, one on Librarian and the other on Thinker.

quote: 2. When the event occurrs, can you actually see the meteorite fall, like in the beginning when the colony pod falls to the ground?

No. You just get a message and, when you look, there's no more base...

	30-09-2001 06:58									#18
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quote: Originally posted by RedFred Xian, I will try to answer some of your questions. I think you will find that Ned's experience is very much the exception. Meteor strikes are rare events. We have speculated in the past what factors make them more likely to happen, but it is just speculation. For me it has only happened in SMAC, never SMACX. A big, productive base seems to be the most likely target. In both instances I got nailed I also had a considerable lead, at least double anyone else on the might chart. The likelihood of some other random events increases if you have the lead, so perhaps that is a factor. So it is a rare, random event. The randomness of it seems to be somehow set at the start of the game. I had a .sav ten years prior to a meteor hit and tested by replaying from my saved game several times. By playing differently I could change the date of the strike by a year or two but I was never able to play without getting nailed in that particular game. I expect that you would get extra minerals out of your new crater, but I confess that in both instances I got hit that I just abandoned the game. So I can't really answer your questions about sympathy from the AI, but I highly doubt it. The never seem to care about other random events that hit you. No chance that someone PB'd you. When that happens you get a big mushroom cloud and a chunk of planet torn away. No nice crater, usually just a lake that we like to call a "fission" pond. As far as where to rebuild, it is difficult to know without seeing your map. I tend to not alter my regular city spacing for the Garland Crater, I just keep it the same as if there were no crater there. Others, including the AI, seem to prefer a single base in the centre of the crater.

thanks

	30-09-2001 07:00									#19
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oh, byu the way, i ALWAYS play with maps as big as possible

	30-09-2001 13:22									#20
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I have yet to notice a meteor hit. But I have seen the crater left by a strike ( Garland Crater, then another crater elsewhere ).

	30-09-2001 23:11									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Alexnm You are right about the base (not necessarily the biggest base you have, but certainly the most productive - and ED also plays a key role, of course). But you don't have to play on Transcend always. I've been hit in two different games, one on Librarian and the other on Thinker.

Thanks. I have played dozens of times on Librarian and Thinker, but... I guess I'm too nice towards Planet to be punished like that

quote: No. You just get a message and, when you look, there's no more base...

That is a downright shame.

	02-10-2001 00:45									#22
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I just thought of something that would really create a tense situation to the player: The asteroid strike could happen not in one, but in three turns; turn one, you get a nice animation showing the asteroid approaching the Planet, and a message saying something like "Sir, our scientists detected a huge asteroid coming to the Planet!"; turn two, the animation appears again, this time the asteroid is even closer, and a message says "Sir, we have no estimate on what may be the impact site"; turn three... BOOM! The asteroid hits one of your bases. This would create a huge expectation on the player, and I think it would maintain the unpredictability, since the asteroid may hit any of your biggest bases...
On the other hand, we basically know that the event almost always happens at your most productive base, and this "three-turns-to-go" thing would draw the player to some frantic activity trying to minimize the damage...

Anyway, something for SMAC2, I guess...

	02-10-2001 02:52									#23
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Alex, Wow! Now that is a good idea! Ned

	02-10-2001 17:22									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Alexnm I just thought of something that would really create a tense situation to the player: The asteroid strike could happen not in one, but in three turns; turn one, you get a nice animation showing the asteroid approaching the Planet, and a message saying something like "Sir, our scientists detected a huge asteroid coming to the Planet!"; turn two, the animation appears again, this time the asteroid is even closer, and a message says "Sir, we have no estimate on what may be the impact site"; turn three... BOOM! The asteroid hits one of your bases. This would create a huge expectation on the player, and I think it would maintain the unpredictability, since the asteroid may hit any of your biggest bases... On the other hand, we basically know that the event almost always happens at your most productive base, and this "three-turns-to-go" thing would draw the player to some frantic activity trying to minimize the damage... Anyway, something for SMAC2, I guess...

When you get the message at the first turn you also gets the option to send away a 2-spaceship crew with deepocean oil-drillers armoured with nukes.

	02-10-2001 17:52									#25
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quote: Originally posted by knowhow2 When you get the message at the first turn you also gets the option to send away a 2-spaceship crew with deepocean oil-drillers armoured with nukes.

Or:
You are given the opportunity to sacrifice a number of your Orbital Defence Pods. You have to determine the number of those pod's in turn one. The amount of pods would determine the chances of the asteroid being destroyed. The asteroid could be also be partially destroyed (inflicting a minor damage), or the trajectory of the asteroid could be changed... you could use the asteroid as an ultimate weapon

	02-10-2001 19:05									#26
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quote: When you get the message at the first turn you also gets the option to send away a 2-spaceship crew with deepocean oil-drillers armoured with nukes.

Think about Provost Willis...

quote: You are given the opportunity to sacrifice a number of your Orbital Defence Pods

I like the idea. It gives the player a new and dramatic choice, especially if he/she is involved in some threatening war at the time of the asteroid strike.

	02-10-2001 23:17									#27
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo you could use the asteroid as an ultimate weapon

But, I thought mass drivers were outlawed by any civilized nation!

Maybe the asteroid could be diverted to orbit Chiron and be used as a mining platform, like Nessus, or maybe a captured asteroid could be the prerequisite of Space Elevator, for the end station.

There should also be various asteroid sizes, from a base-buster to the ones sized Texas . And maybe the Planetary Council would decide, whether all factions should try to counter the latter ones, to prevent extinction.

	03-10-2001 02:42									#28
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yknow, I almost never get hit by random events, and when I do (maybe once a game) they are usually ones that get converted by facilities to good ones, or the occasional mineral/nutrient/energy bust.

I believe this is because the base to be hit randomly is determined randomly from all bases on planet, and then that base has to meet certain requirements for the effect to actually occur. Since I typically build less than 20 bases, and my opponents build 40+ (depending on AI power), they tend to be the targets (provided they qualify) instead of me.

Never seen the Asteroid, haven't seen the satelite destruction ones in a year, and rarely see any others. In my last/current game, I've seen four to date (MY 2380) and they were two on me (+1 nuts/10 years, all farms/forests destroyed) and two on opponets (prometheous virus, solar collectors destroyed). I have about 40 bases in this game, more than usual because I'm trying Doctrine : Defense style.

The lesson here is fewer bases. Efficiency teaches the same lessons, which is why I started playing that way in the first place.

I almost never see sea level rises or volcanoes either, but that's because their eco-damage related.

	03-10-2001 07:14									#29
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Fitz, Clearly your style of play keeps you immune. IIRC, the Asteroid always hits before tree farms when the following is true:

You are the leading faction by at least +50% at 20 turns prior to being hit

You are producing ED on a relatively constant basis and have experienced at least one pop.

And you have your most productive and developed base at a location where the asteroid can hit and leave a crater hole entirely on land.

If these conditions are met, you get hit - otherwise you see a volcano erupt in the ocean.

The volcano, at least in my game, does not cause dust. However, the Asteroid strike does cause dust that reduces all energy per square by 1.

Ned

	03-10-2001 11:26									#30
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That explains why I have never gotten hit (and only one volcano)--I have never had a landlocked heavy industrial base.