29-09-2001 00:47									#1
	Hi from the new guy Increase Your PM Length

Hi all, just wanted to introduce myself and maybe ask a couple of questions. The board looks great and looks like it will be helpful in the future. Now on to the questions:

1) I picked up civ2 Test of Time some time ago but did not play it for all that long because it just did not seem to hold my interest. (In its defense I didnt have that much time to play) . I have recently picked up CTP2 and have been having nothing but fun with it. NOW, I have noticed many people talk of how Civ2 is a much better game(not to mention the LARGE amount of posts they have on their board). Question is: What are the big differences in the two that supposedly makes Civ2 better.

2)I forgot my other question with all the previous typing!

Thanks to all in advance for the help and replies

	29-09-2001 08:33									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

For one, many of the bugs in Civ2 have been patched, while in CtP2, the bugs remain.

But my main problem with CtP2 is that it doesn't give you the feeling of being immersed in the game. You don't feel like you are a part of anything....civ2 wasn't at all like that.

	29-09-2001 09:49									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I have been playing Civ games since 1993 and I think I speak for most of the other civers that Civ2 is leaps and bounds above any of the CTP games.
One thing I would do with your version of Test of Time is play the basic game don't add all the space colonies and add on stuff just a basic game the way it originally was released. Give Civ2 another chance because it is a spectacular game.
Perhaps the graphics are not as refined as CTP1 or 2 but its the gameplay that made Civ2 THE GAME! Haven't you noticed in your CTP2 games that all the computer does is trade maps? Have you noticed the fact that the computer never attacks? If the computer AI in CTP2 does decide to attack its always a feeble effort. There are many small gameplay issues as well that are just not implimented well.
On the other hand, if you play Civ2 you'll find that the computer AI contacts you constantly and proposes many things. Granted, the AI's strategy for war is not always effective it does put up a good fight, especially at the higher levels.
CTP2 had a lot of potential but was released way too early and was programmed by a bunch of clowns. You can try the mods but I just tried them and didn't find any significant improvement to the game.
There are many things I could write about Civ2 but I'm at work and almost done my break but I will say that I strongly urge you to give Civ2 another chance and play 3 or 4 more games each at a progressively higher difficulty if you won too easily the last time. I would predict you will be pleasently surprised.
If you still don't like it and prefer CTP2 that would surprise me but that's ok.

Good luck and have fun at whichever game you choose.

	29-09-2001 23:38									#4
	Got spare money?

CTP2 had a lot of potential but was released way too early and was programmed by a bunch of clowns.

That is true it was realized to early, but that was activisions fault not the programmers, Someone realized they weren't going to finish so they made the game very dependent on text files and this was what saved it.

I for one have always liked the Call To Power series, even when it was bad. But this might be due to the fact it was my first Civ Game. Hearing about all the stuff you had to do in civ 2 I just get disgusted, attacking cities one unit at a time moving dozens of settlers, ETC.... . I just don't know how someone can stand that.

In CTP 2 you don't have to move dozens of settlers and you can attack cities with 12 units. I remember playing AC and it just frustrated me so much that I couldn't, attack a city with more than one unit, I tried and tried, but couldn't do it. I also think letting settlers build terrain improvements is cheating, in CTP 2 you get enough PW to build 1 or two farms every turn while in CIV 2 You could build 12 or more farms each turn.

But my main problem with CtP2 is that it doesn't give you the feeling of being immersed in the game.

this isn't true I have felt the one more turn feeling many times.

Perhaps the graphics are not as refined as CTP1 or 2 but its the gameplay that made Civ2 THE GAME! Haven't you noticed in your CTP2 games that all the computer does is trade maps? Have you noticed the fact that the computer never attacks? If the computer AI in CTP2 does decide to attack its always a feeble effort. There are many small gameplay issues as well that are just not implimented well.

Play Craddle and you will get challenged militarily, even the guy who made it still get's whooped. I get the feeling you have never really played CTP 2 modded because it kicks A$$, You're just trying to stop people from playing CTP 2. Dale fixed diplomacy quite well in CTP 2 the AI does more than trade maps.

the trade system is one of the best ever made, You actually need more than one caravan to trade goods, sometimes you even need 20 or more caravans to trade one good, making it hard to become a major trade power in the game without dedicating much of your production to caravans, which is as it should be.

The pollution also matters, not only do you get dead tiles you actually have to worry about global pollution disasters, which aren't pretty, you have to worry about flooding, and global warming which turns your good terrains (grassland, plains and others) into bad ones( swamps, deserts, etc....)

Grinch2020 come to the Modification forums and read the major mod threads (Craddle, MedMod, and Apolyton Pack) and you'll see why people keep playing CTP 2. This forum is full of CIV 2 trolls who don't want people to play CTP 2.

Last edited by Cube on 29-09-2001 at 23:43

	01-10-2001 05:36									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Cube CTP2 had a lot of potential but was released way too early and was programmed by a bunch of clowns. That is true it was realized to early, but that was activisions fault not the programmers, Someone realized they weren't going to finish so they made the game very dependent on text files and this was what saved it.

Saved it for you but not everyone. I still feel ripped off for $70.

quote: I just don't know how someone can stand that. this isn't true I have felt the one more turn feeling many times.

Hey your entitled to your opinion it's just not mine. Accept it.

quote: I get the feeling you have never really played CTP 2 modded because it kicks A$$, You're just trying to stop people from playing CTP 2.

I did say I tried the mods but to no avail the game still sucked in MY OPINION.

As far as stopping people from playing. I could give a rats ass who played what!! The person asked for an opinion and I gave it. You CTP players are too sensitive. Any way didn't I say at the end of my message "have fun at WHICHEVER game you choose"? Sheesh.

quote: This forum is full of CIV 2 trolls who don't want people to play CTP 2.

Yah, real smooth buddy...... you gots lotsa class.....


Finally, to Grinch2020. Like I said give Civ2 another few more tries and make your own judgement. I really think Civ2 will surprise you!!!
If you still like CTP2 better have fun....!

	01-10-2001 13:46									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: I for one have always liked the Call To Power series, even when it was bad. But this might be due to the fact it was my first Civ Game. Hearing about all the stuff you had to do in civ 2 I just get disgusted, attacking cities one unit at a time moving dozens of settlers, ETC.... . I just don't know how someone can stand that.

i have played Civ since my sis brought the original Civization on her laptop from school. To see how much its progressed its amazing. Playing CTP2 i get really frustrated at the bugs and ATTEMPT to go back to Civ2. Its just not possible. As you said, atacking with 1 unit really SUX, the trade is APPALING, and having to move around 100 settlers in the modern age so that i can build all my tile improvements, i grow a beard. PW is prob the best addition activision made.

Im not at all though trying to rubbish CIv2. When i fist bought it, it was prob the best game i had ever played. The reason - because it was a major improvement to the already fabulous Civ game i had been playing.

But to compare CTP2 to Civ2 is like comparing Macadanias to peanuts. Of course some people wont like the macadanias although.

Multiplaying it a totally diff story

	01-10-2001 23:27									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Thanks for all of your replies. Your information has been very helpful. I think the best way for me to figure out which one I like is to try both. Unfortuanately my copy of civ2 is about 2.5 hours to the north of me right now! Thanks again for yur help

	02-10-2001 01:36									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Simpleton Saved it for you but not everyone. I still feel ripped off for $70.

Paying $70 for any game is ridiculous anyway.

	02-10-2001 08:32									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat Paying $70 for any game is ridiculous anyway.

Sorry, that's in Canadian $. Probably would have been around 45 to 50 bucks US. The place I bought it from gets the games in from the states quick but you do play a premium for that service.

Oh well. Live and learn. --> Avoid Activision products.

	03-10-2001 01:59									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Simpleton Sorry, that's in Canadian $. Probably would have been around 45 to 50 bucks US. The place I bought it from gets the games in from the states quick but you do play a premium for that service. Oh well. Live and learn. --> Avoid Activision products.

Ah Canadian dollars. ~ US$47 ~ £28. Thats quite reasonable for here. Even so, if you don't like the game, its still a rip-off