30-09-2001 09:12									#1
	MP no longer mentioned in Amazon advertising. Suffering from ads?

Looks like MP will definitely be out.

	30-09-2001 09:15									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Eh. It annoys me 'cause they're gonna gouge like they did last time, but I'm mainly an SPer.

Gouging, not productive competition, GP.

	30-09-2001 09:35									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

theyre going to make a few extra scenarios and add MP and make you bend over and pay.

	30-09-2001 09:45									#4
	Put an end to popups!

i choose you! ISO!

	30-09-2001 10:03									#5
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX theyre going to make a few extra scenarios and add MP and make you bend over and pay.

Usually, when I'm paying, I like to make the other guy bend over.

	30-09-2001 10:43									#6
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Eh. It annoys me 'cause they're gonna gouge like they did last time, but I'm mainly an SPer. Gouging, not productive competition, GP.

Of course it's gouging, copyrighted works are monopoly priced. Of course, we have to remember that this helps drive innovation/development (as with pharmaceuticals) and that (wrt to computer games) there are available substitutes.

	30-09-2001 11:58									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Can you say "Multiplayer Gold Edition", like we didn't (shouldn't have) known it was going to be this way.

If you've got a cash cow, milk her her till she falls over!

	30-09-2001 13:01									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well.. you really think they are going to sell MP separately?

You know.. I can't really blame them. I mean, yes, it is taking us for a ride. But at the same time, it is a free market society we are living in and they can pretty much do what they want with CIV.

And the truth is, I would sell it separately if it was my decision to make- its good marketing. No one may like it, but then no one is twisting our arms to make sure we buy the product either.

So basically what I am saying is: they may sell MP later, and we all will B!t(h about it, but then go right out and buy the MP XP.

	30-09-2001 14:38									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Remember Civnet???

Civ2 had MP hooks in it when it shipped. MGE took forever!!!!

	30-09-2001 17:35									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

yeah, and that was five years ago!

	30-09-2001 18:49									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

This makes perfect sense. 16 civs SP. Sell the baby.
Six months later, sales are dropping. CivIII Add-On. Included is four extra civs, 10 scenarios (5 Firaxis/5 hijacked off the Internet) and multiplayer support.
A year later, CivIII MGE. Everything put together in the same box with a few extra scenarios.
A year after that, the whole thing is sold for 1/2 price. Then it's prime time for CivIV.

	30-09-2001 21:56									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It's a dangerous game they play.

Sure short term they get more money, long term more customers distrust what they say and do. Which is the better solution?

For the market it makes sense to stiff the customer and sell the game in two seperate entities because by the time the general public decides to wise up either the game company wises up or they are out of business...

In the short term it's the customer who must watch and see what happens. I'm going to wait and see if MP ships with the game, if so they I'll probably get it, otherwise I'll wait. I'm sure my measly $50 won't break Firaxis and Infogrames, but maybe eventually there will be enough people withholding that $50 to make a difference.

	30-09-2001 22:57									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

There are a few possible reasons why they are not shipping with MP

1. They want the Christmas market and including MP will delay it too long
   
2. They want the extra post-game sales on expansion packs.
   
3. MP just doesn't work and they are shipping with the hope they can rectify the situation in the near future.
   

	01-10-2001 09:42									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Earthling7 This makes perfect sense. 16 civs SP. Sell the baby. Six months later, sales are dropping. CivIII Add-On. Included is four extra civs, 10 scenarios (5 Firaxis/5 hijacked off the Internet) and multiplayer support. A year later, CivIII MGE. Everything put together in the same box with a few extra scenarios. A year after that, the whole thing is sold for 1/2 price. Then it's prime time for CivIV.

makes perfect sense. This is the way this stuff works. Just lie back and enjoy it...

	01-10-2001 10:23									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by GP makes perfect sense. This is the way this stuff works. Just lie back and enjoy it...

or we can B). sit here and flame them.






i choose B.

	01-10-2001 10:33									#16
	Suffering from ads?

Well...would you scream if I raped you...or just "lie back..."

	01-10-2001 10:40									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'd use the #1 proven tactic: defecation&urination. Nothing stops a rape like disgust.

	01-10-2001 10:45									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I'd use the #1 proven tactic: defecation&urination. Nothing stops a rape like disgust.

Are you trying to get this thread locked. GP resists the urge to one up...keeps comment in head and does not write it down...

Now...getting back to Civ3. It looks like Infogrames is approaching this as a marketing problem. It seems pretty interesting to me. I wonder if they might want some high-priced help...

	01-10-2001 10:49									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba You know.. I can't really blame them. I mean, yes, it is taking us for a ride. But at the same time, it is a free market society we are living in and they can pretty much do what they want with CIV.

I thought the most important feature in a free market economy is consumer soveriegnty. Doesn't seem like it is anymore.

	01-10-2001 10:49									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Anyother game and the multi would be downloadable. And I agree, if they stiff us over too much, they may just lose their customers. It is never good to "toy" with the customer base.

	01-10-2001 10:50									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Sun: you're free to buy or not. That's the only freedom guaranteed by a consumer society.

	01-10-2001 10:55									#22
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Jamison Anyother game and the multi would be downloadable. And I agree, if they stiff us over too much, they may just lose their customers. It is never good to "toy" with the customer base.

Nad if they don't stiff you enough, they may leave money on the table that they never collect.

	01-10-2001 15:20									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Are you sure MP is not in?

	01-10-2001 18:10									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by GP Nad if they don't stiff you enough, they may leave money on the table that they never collect.

And if they stiff customers too much they will lose more than money from this game they will lose customers for all future products.

Don't believe it, look at old companies like Spectrum Holobyte, Microsprose, etc. Enough bad games and/or attempts to gouge the customers and the customer moves on.

	01-10-2001 20:10									#25
	Inflate your Upload Space

We can go back and forth on this, Ozy. They charge too little, they go out of business, they charge too much they go out of business.

IMNSHO, the key is "funness". If the game is a killer fun game (as Civ2 and Civ1 were), they will be able to get away with exploiting the market. If it's not fun, they won't.

	01-10-2001 23:36									#26
	Increase Your PM Length

There is still hope - Firaxis did not mention that MP is out.

	02-10-2001 01:19									#27
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by GP We can go back and forth on this, Ozy. They charge too little, they go out of business, they charge too much they go out of business. IMNSHO, the key is "funness". If the game is a killer fun game (as Civ2 and Civ1 were), they will be able to get away with exploiting the market. If it's not fun, they won't.

lol, GP!

I know and understand this, but I still feel I must post a realistic, not-everyone-is-a-sucker view as well.

Just trying to balance all the blind devotion that's seen around here daily.

	02-10-2001 03:15									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Oh, come on... Everyone who *****es about the price of Civ3 only does so because of the totally arbitrary pricing structure of computer games that dictates that new product must be $40 - $50 for every player no matter how much utility (time or enjoyment) he or she gets from the game. The theoretical "optimal" pricing point for a game would differ from player to player depending upon utility; and every single person on this board would pay more than $50 for Civ3 if it weren't for the anchor of arbitrary pricing standard.

In other words, in an alternate reality where games aren't released nationally or carried in stores, but are instead sold in limited runs on a not-to-be-exceeded, first-come, first-served basis to a pre-defined number of, say, 5,000 users who pay, say, $200 each, I think it's pretty obvious that virtually everyone at Apolyton would gladly be on that list of 5,000. It is irrational to complain of a lack of fairness in what is clearly an arbitrary pricing structure in what is clearly a very tough industry on the supply side in which you the consumer have perfect freedom of choice and in which you, specifically, the self-selected Apolyton gamer (who will get far more than "average" utility from the product) will nonetheless "unfairly" pay just an "average" price.

And to any idiot who is tempted to flame me for "saying that Civ3 should be $200": (A) that's not what I'm saying, and (B) try learning something about theoretical economics.

	02-10-2001 03:53									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Maybe they're trying to boost the sales of a future expansion pack. If the expansion includes multiplayer support, many more people will buy it than if MP was already included in the game.

It still all comes back to $$$.

	02-10-2001 05:26									#30
	I WANT MY MULTIPLAYER! Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Why don't they release it with MP and then release an enhanced MP later? Best of both worlds.

Do they really want the multiplayer community bashing the game before and after release? Its a vocal community.