30-09-2001 09:58									#1
	Q's on Abbreviations, Challenges Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Hello, I'm fairly new here, and I've come across a few phrases that I'm not familiar with...

1 - what does IIRC stand for? My best guess is "if I recall", but I'm not confident enough in my guess to assume it

2 - what is the double blind challenge? I understand blind (just checking the "blind research" rule), but what makes it double? Not checking any of the 4 research categories?

3 - also, just to see what I should be aiming for, what is a good transcendence time for a normal game (directed research, huge map)? OCC game (no special rules like probes only, just the 1 city restriction)? double blind? or even double blind with tech stag ( )?

Thanks in advance!

Z

	30-09-2001 10:23									#2
	Re: Q's on Abbreviations, Challenges Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Zakharov VII Hello, I'm fairly new here, and I've come across a few phrases that I'm not familiar with... 1 - what does IIRC stand for? My best guess is "if I recall", but I'm not confident enough in my guess to assume it

I believe it is "if I remember correctly" or something like that.

quote: 2 - what is the double blind challenge? I understand blind (just checking the "blind research" rule), but what makes it double? Not checking any of the 4 research categories?

yep.

quote: 3 - also, just to see what I should be aiming for, what is a good transcendence time for a normal game (directed research, huge map)? OCC game (no special rules like probes only, just the 1 city restriction)? double blind? or even double blind with tech stag ( )?

I have no idea.

	01-10-2001 03:41									#3
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I apologize in advance for newbieness but what does occ stand for

	01-10-2001 03:51									#4
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OCC=One City Challenge
fairly obviously, the gole is to win building only one city, although there are various specific types with specific rules.

	01-10-2001 03:59									#5
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I believe the most audacious challenge yet was the Nomad challenge - although I forget who undertook it, and I think succeeded.

What you do is this. Start a game with "Look First" on. You'll get a pod and a scout. Disband the pod, and then achieve a conquest victory. (I think it has to be conquest. There may be other rules as well, but I forget them)

	01-10-2001 06:33									#6
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Ahhh yes....Master Zso's finest victory....man.....that was awesome!

-=Vel=-

	01-10-2001 23:57									#7
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Nomad Challenge? Sounds interesting!

I'm assuming that this is only really possible with the Gaians or Cult (thinking that mind worms early on are the only hope?) I suppose you could run over pods until you get Cent Eco, and then move to Green politics. What were the other conditions/options for this?

Apologies to Zakharov for going OT.

	02-10-2001 09:46									#8
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Thanks for the responses, and I don't mind your going "OT" - this IS a thread about challenges, so your comments are welcome

I would still like to know some good times to be aiming for - I'm 3 techs away from finishing a normal transcend OCC challenge (nothing special except the 1 city), and I think I'm doing fairly well in my double blind/tech stag game (both challenges SMAC, transcend, University. IIRC (thanks !), it's about 2250 and I'm getting a tech every 5 turns (yuck, icky 3500 research points needed!) and a couple hundred credits too! I'm the only one with air power, I have Automation from my dear friend Morgan, I just let Deirdre conquer one of my weak bases so I could probe Empathy out of her (she's the first to get it, after ALL this time!) and build the Guild. Sparta is throwing troops at me, and I lost one of my new bases, but she doesn't have AAA yet (which is good for me, because I'm throwing Chaos and Missile Penetrators at her). MMI will simplify things greatly but it hasn't even given me Neural Grafting yet.

I have a million crawlers, all working on mines (4 minerals) or condensors (4 nutrients). Most of my tech/cash comes from speciailists or boreholes, so I have little need for Market (running Planned or Green, can't remember). I'm snatched most of the secret projects and have tree farms, so I'm in pretty good shape. No one has any techs I don't have, which is nice .

Z

	02-10-2001 21:07									#9
	Re: Q's on Abbreviations, Challenges Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Zakharov VII what is a good transcendence time for a normal game (directed research, huge map)? OCC game (no special rules like probes only, just the 1 city restriction)? double blind? or even double blind with tech stag ( )? Z

I would guess that good transcend times (ranging from extremely good to better than average) are:

2175-2225 transcend level, directed research, small map
2210-2265 transcend level, directed research, normal map
2250-2300 transcend level, directed research, huge map

2265-2315 transcend, double-blind, normal map
2300-2350 transcend, double-blind, huge map
2300-2350 trasncend, directed research, tech stag, huge map
2335-2400 transcend, double-blind, tech stag, huge map

2275-2325 OCC, combat allowed, trans, directed res, normal map
2300-2350 OCC, combat allowed, trans, directed res, huge map
2300-2350 OCC, no combat units, trans, directed res, normal map
2325-2375 OCC, no combat units, trans, directed res, huge map

zsozso transcended at 2172 with the Gaians on a small map
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum12/HTML/000517.html

I'm not so sure about the double-blind tech-stag time, but I think I'd be happy to transcend at all.

I would say transcending at 2275 is still better than average on a normal map, but 50 years faster is possible. A lot of people turn off random events, and having all your satellites blow up, or even the rare meteor strike on a city, can obviously have a big impact (har har, bad pun) that has nothing to do with your skill.

I'm not sure about the speed difference in OCC speeds using combat vs. non-combat units. Combat units give you a big bonus by getting neighboring factions in submissive pacts as research slaves in the early game, although this does slow down your development a bit and keep you from pop-booming your city as early. You get more research from sub pacted factions than you do from factions you probe, since you will give them all your tech and they will always be working on something you don't have, although I'm still not sure about the 25-year bonus for allowing combat units.

RedFred said he typically gets 2310-2330 transcends for OCC in SMAX, and most people doing OCC don't use combat units.

Most good transcend times are going to come from the University. Obviously research is important, and the ability to pop-boom your bases up to 16 early is also important, which hurts the Cyborgs.

	03-10-2001 06:45									#10
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Thanks very much for the times !! I will keep them in mind!!

I have a 2275 Transcend/Huge normal rules transcendence, but that was sort of unfair because the Gaians finished the Voice while I still had about 10 techs left.

I think I'm in the 2300-2350 OCC Huge range (with combat units, but no submissive pacts - just some fun with Miriam ) with 3 techs to go - so I should come out in that range. I probed very little - I like to keep to myself (though I did get Bio-Engineering from Santiago, and probed a 1-4-1 unit from her and stuck it in a bunker on her continent - it really messed up her ZoCs, as the continent was narrow!)

I think I'm doing really well in my Tech Stag/Double Blind game - I'm going to play a few turns right now and post back how I'm doing

--------------------

I always play Huge/larger-than-Huge maps (my double blind/tech stag is 128x128 - does that slow down research considerably?)...perhaps I should try a tinier map for faster times?

By the way, I play SMAC so I have no clue who the Cyborgs are . And as you can probably tell, I like University (Pop booms, Free Market occasionally, GA/Wealth +1 energy, and fast research - nothing bad, in my opinion!)

Z

	04-10-2001 06:44									#11
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So far...

Double Blind, Tech Stagnation, 128x128 size

Year 2262, 45% of the way through the tree, getting a tech every 4 turns at 50/10/40 (about 1000 tech per turn out of 4000 tech cost). Running Democracy, Planned, Wealth. With this set up I get 250 energy per turn. Right now everyone hates me (hmph), vendetta's with everyone but Pact with Morgan. I've only missed 4 of the early secret projects...Deirdre just scared me by starting HSA, but I sent in a transport and probed the tech, then hurried the SP . All taken care of

Z

	28-10-2001 03:48									#12
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Haven't finished my double blind/tech stag (too many crawlers, slows down computer...) but I just finished my best transcendence time...and it was with my all forest (leniant here - a few condensers and work the native fungas, but NO BOREHOLES)/no crawler (strict here - NONE, not even to hurry secret projects) rules . 2255 or so, Brother Lal, Huge Map. Got up to Phi Sector I think in the bases list, never fought a war (just mind controlled a few bases near Miriam/Santiago so I could have a nice place to probe their techs ).

Lal is extradinarily Powerful!! Easy govener, easy(er) Free Marketing, easy pop-booming. What I really think helped my score was my timing on the Free Market/Planned switch - I managed Free Market early until tree farms covered my whole continent (SUPER DUPER important in an all forest game, obviously!). Using the Free Market cash really helped to get those installed. Once all the bases had Tree Farms/Hab Complexes, I switched to Planned and it was amazing. Soon I had size 16's everywhere!!

With Fusion Penetrator Colony pods came a new wave of expansion. But that was just icing on the cake - my original 15 or so did the brunt of the work.

I didn't actually get all the techs - I skipped the Graviton->Controlled Singularity Line. Actually, I got Graviton Theory and Applied Gravitonics . I got Graviton Theory the same year as I Ascended, that window popped up first. And the funny thing is I got Applied Gravitonics right AFTER Transcending but BEFORE I got the victory screen !!! What a useful tech!

My score was only 355% but I was looking for fastest not highest score.

Z

	28-10-2001 07:07									#13
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quote: [SIZE=1] With Fusion Penetrator ... came a new wave of expansion.

Well, that is one way to multiply rapidly.

	28-10-2001 07:13									#14
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I'll jump in with my own newbie questions. Knowing this will make me sound like an utter moron, are you supposed to crawl the squares within a base's radius or outside the radius? I have assumed that those within the radius are already counted and so I crawl squares outside the radius.

Also, I can win on citizen level as the Spartans (through military victory, or diplo via military strength), but I'm finding I prefer playing as the University. Tech advances come so much faster and, while I am certain this changes at greater difficulty levels, I don't have to devote so much to military and can still be able to defend my bases and overpower others (though it takes a bit longer).

Lastly, what are the prefered battle units? I've become quite fond of mind worms and trust in them to do the majority of my military dirty work. I'm like to use ships to bombard enemy bases and soften them up before my ground troops arrive, and I assume that is good. I've absolutely no use for copters because they keep blowing up on me. I'm sure I just don't know how to use them but I avoid them entirely.

	28-10-2001 07:33									#15
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About crawling, it doesn't really matter. If you crawl the squares inside the base radius, you can't work that square, but when do you work all the squares anyway (before the Hab Domes)? Also one of the crawler strategies is to use FEW or ZERO workers and make them all specialists. If you're only gonna be working a few boreholes in the base radius, the rest can be crawled condensers for the nutrients.

So basically, it depends on what you're aiming for. If you just want to augment the resources your workers bring it, it doesn't matter much (though if you're gonna use TONS of crawlers, you'll need to put some out of the radius so you still have some squares to work). If you want to set up an all-specialist base (to avoid riots when fighting under Market), you might as well put them in the base radius since the whole point is NOT to work any squares.

Dinner time, so this is as much as I can write right now

Z