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alf
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Bilbao de España,.... espero
May 2001
time: 05:15
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Fiel a mi costumbre de crear patrones de trabajo, para enterarme de algo de este mundo, para mí tan complicado, del civ2, he decidido abrir una carpeta donde expongáis vuestras opiniones sobre cómo crear escenarios.
Sería muy de mi agrado y creo que de provecho general el que os explicárais con mucho detalle en este área, sin salirnos hacia el futbol, la política y otras áreas interesantes pero diferentes.
He traducido este finde el fichero informativo del MapEdit, he probado el programa y me parece una excelente herramienta para crear mapas, partiendo, eso sí, de un escaneo de un mapa.
Mi traducción es bastante patética, así que me encantaría que alguien q haya manejado esa herramienta o que tenga un brillante inglés, supervise mi penosa traducción por si he metido la pata, como seguramente pase.
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Fiera
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Proud Member of the Spanish Gang
Mar 2000
time: 06:15
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Sí, la verdad es que el MapEdit de Jorrit Vermeiren (Mercator por estos pagos) es lo mejor que hay, si partes de un mapa ya escaneado o en formato digital.
Como yo ya he hecho mis pinitos en dibujar mapas "from scratch", es decir, siguiendo "a ojo" el atlas, te diré que lo mejor es superponer, a lápiz, una retícula de casillas, que serán las "tiles" del mapa. Ahora, no pongas los ejes en perpendicular a la hoja del mapa, sino más bien "en diagonal", que es como están orientadas en los mapas de Civ2.
Aún y así, hay que tener en cuenta que el formato de mapas de Civ2 cuenta dos casillas del eje Y (el vertical) por cada una del eje X. Hay dos posibilidades: pintar una subdivisión, que duplique el número de casillas verticales de tu retícula, o (para perezosos, como yo) no pintarla y simplemente, tenerla en cuenta al ir haciendo el mapa.
Así, con esas referencias, puedes hacer un mapa que esté bien orientado y proporcionado en Civ2, pero lleva su tiempo, eh? 
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alf
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Bilbao de España,.... espero
May 2001
time: 05:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Fiera
Como yo ya he hecho mis pinitos en dibujar mapas "from scratch", es decir, siguiendo "a ojo" el atlas, te diré que lo mejor es superponer, a lápiz, una retícula de casillas, que serán las "tiles" del mapa. Ahora, no pongas los ejes en perpendicular a la hoja del mapa, sino más bien "en diagonal", que es como están orientadas en los mapas de Civ2.
Así, con esas referencias, puedes hacer un mapa que esté bien orientado y proporcionado en Civ2, pero lleva su tiempo, eh? |
Sí, por eso es por lo q me inclino por escanear un mapa, darle formato BMP y luego pasarlo por el MapEdit, al final modificar algo con el editor del CIV.
Creo q es el método mas rápido.
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Marquis de Sodaq
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... no, a Marquis.
Jul 2000
time: 23:15
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Jorrit,
The GLOBE data is usable in the same way as the shaded relief image I've used. However, the resolution (1 km) is not much better than my image. That said, it does indeed give the user elevation zones. The downside of this is not so apparent on a continental scale, but closer in, misinterpretation could result. Namely, highland areas that are level terrain appear no different than rugged mountains - some other reference would be needed to accurately show terrain. The shaded relief cannot be converted directly, but can be used as a visual reference. I happen to have it on a cd-rom, so it's already on my desktop - other data (e.g. GLOBE) would require downloading and conversion to a format for mapping. The world image is almost 1 GIGABYTE! Try downloading that at 56k/sec!  Sadly, cd-roms are not free...
The land cover layer is more readily usable than the elevation data - download/order and use. It differs from the images I had sent you in that it is current land cover. Appropriate for modern scenarios, not so for earlier times. But then, also not hard to change.
I can (in theory, anyway) project data to any projection. Images are more of a hassle than vector data, but still work. Their cut-up cylindrical view looks to be one of two versions that can be acquired. The other is continent-level, not the whole globe.
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Mercator
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Sorekara no Nanimo
Jan 1970
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq
Namely, highland areas that are level terrain appear no different than rugged mountains - some other reference would be needed to accurately show terrain. The shaded relief cannot be converted directly, but can be used as a visual reference. |
 Yes, you´re right. I didn´t think of it that way. Wouldn´t it be possible somehow to show relief without shading? Say, use color hue to indicate elevation and color lightness to indicate "steepness" or something...
But then again, maybe it is just pointless. After all, unless someone can make a Civ2/3 map generator using such full datasets in stead of images, there will always be some inaccuracy, which will have to be adjusted manually. rying to put more and more info in the bitmaps already, will only shift the difficulty of making maps from accurately drawing to finding enough good data to please a program. And to be honest, I´ve hardly ever used MapEdit myself (except as a quick previewer and sometimes to resize maps).
quote:
I happen to have it on a cd-rom, so it's already on my desktop - other data (e.g. GLOBE) would require downloading and conversion to a format for mapping. The world image is almost 1 GIGABYTE! Try downloading that at 56k/sec! Sadly, cd-roms are not free... |
Yes, I understand. Believe me, I´m already more than happy with what you can do now.
quote:
I can (in theory, anyway) project data to any projection. Images are more of a hassle than vector data, but still work. Their cut-up cylindrical view looks to be one of two versions that can be acquired. The other is continent-level, not the whole globe. |
Well, those land cover data were just an example. It uses a rather strange division of vegetation (difficult to convert to a Civ2 compatible format that is  ). I´m sure your data is sufficient, and even better.
Maybe you could create something like this: http://www.apolyton.net/cgi-bin/ctp...view.cgi?ID=596
Looking at the CtP2 maps OmniGod made from it, it´s pretty damn brilliant.
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Marquis de Sodaq
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... no, a Marquis.
Jul 2000
time: 23:15
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OmniGod's image is the sort of thing that could be done with the land cover data, no doubt. Maybe that would be appropriate for some maps. I chose the simplified WWF ecoregion data because it provided an almost 1:1 conversion to civ terrain types. Granted, nobody would keep a 30x30 square swath entirely forest. Some grassland or hills would get added to make it more realistic. But, having played real-world maps many times, I feel that game playability is an important factor - no matter how accurate the source data, it will need to be altered to make the game enjoyable.
Your question about coloring/shading to depict steepness, called "slope." A grid cell would contain a value for how steep it is, based on its neighboring cells. These can be combined with elevation, but the result is similar to the shaded relief - the eye discerns the information easily, but a computer algorithm to do the same is not so simple! I agree that this enters the realm of added complexity that does not improve the output.
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01-10-2001 13:37
Attachment: 
Attachment: 
Es antiguo o podré encontrarlo por ahí?
What´s up with me and MapEdit? 
sorry). You sent me some of those vegetation/elevation maps... Beautiful. But, those shaded reliefs are impossible to transform to a map automatically. I think several different maps (e.g. a grayscale elevation map like these: 
)
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